Gas fire installation - are these upfront payments reasonable?

[spantik]

I'm on the verge of accepting a quote for installation of a hole in the wall gas fire, new flue liner, associated plastering, removal of rubbish etc.

The (small) company has requested 50% deposit (that's over £800), then an 'intermim payment' of another 25% followed by the final payment on completion.

I've never been asked to pay so much up front.

I have no probs with the company or their gas safe installers. They are all kosher!

What do you think about the payments?

Thanks a lot!

 

[diamondgas]

I'm deffo getting old!............. What's a "hole in the wall gas fire?" .... If you're talking about a fire into an old chimney opening then we may explore the alternatives to be honest spantik

 

[Destroyer2813]

I would say the installer is covering himself to make sure if you decide you arnt gonna pay him his materials are covered. Not that i am implying that you would put there are plenty of people out there that will get a tradesman in with the clear intention of not paying them

 

[Howsie]

Not unreasonable IMHO.

 

[mountainman]

If you trust him then pay up, if you don't trust him then he doesn't need you as a customer. IMO

 

[diamondgas]

What's a hole on the wall gas fire ???????????????? ...........

 

[snowhead]

What's a hole on the wall gas fire ???????????????? ...........

Inset??Valor Gas Fire - Valor Blenheim Slimline Inset Gas Fire Chrome

 

[diamondgas]

Inset??Valor Gas Fire - Valor Blenheim Slimline Inset Gas Fire Chrome

So as I thought ........ cheers snowhead ............ Is this conceivably a gas fire fitted to a conventional flue?

 

[spantik]

So as I thought ........ cheers snowhead ............ Is this conceivably a gas fire fitted to a conventional flue?

Yes I guess. It is fully recessed into the builder's opening - there was a back boiler previously so there's a conventional flue -Class 1.

You can just have the 'fire box' or you can have a trim fitted which reduces the chance of the plaster crazing with the heat. I'm opting for the trim.

I've found that saying an 'inset fire' sometimes means a wall hung fire. Different words mean different things to different installers!

Anyway, thanks everyone for your comments so far.

 

[Nostrum]

Did you sort the problem with the next doors fumes/smell out OK out of interest?

 

[diamondgas]

Yes I guess. It is fully recessed into the builder's opening - there was a back boiler previously so there's a conventional flue -Class 1.

You can just have the 'fire box' or you can have a trim fitted which reduces the chance of the plaster crazing with the heat. I'm opting for the trim.

I've found that saying an 'inset fire' sometimes means a wall hung fire. Different words mean different things to different installers!

Anyway, thanks everyone for your comments so far.

My thoughts are why do you need a new flue Liner TBH? Pull out the old and you have class1 which will accommodate any fire IMO ?

 

[Nostrum]

The fire he had specced (if the same as the one mentioned in another post) specified a flue liner was required as the fire has a flue spigot off the top of it.

I've seen quite a few of these hole in the wall fires where they need a flue liner, not quite sure why? EU products maybe?

 

[diamondgas]

The fire he had specced (if the same as the one mentioned in another post) specified a flue liner was required as the fire has a flue spigot off the top of it.

I've seen quite a few of these hole in the wall fires where they need a flue liner, not quite sure why? EU products maybe?

Interesting Sam I'm glad to be distanced from this marked nowerdays! It seems to be becoming more of a 'specialised' market

 

[Nostrum]

Just thought, might be something to do with keeping efficiencies higher, less CSA means less heat escaping up the old chimney??

 

[dontknowitall]

Spantik

As has been suggested earlier, many tradesmen (not just plumbers) have been stung in the last few years with non payment. It's one thing not to be paid your wage but quite another when you've bought something for a customer that you're unlikely to sell to someone else and one way of dealing with this is to ask for a deposit up front as it lessens the risk of not being paid.

It's a sign of the times I'm afraid and not a reflection on how good or not someone is at doing their job. Some of us do only charge at the end of a job. It doesn't mean that we're better or worse than those who want some money in advance.

 

[spantik]

sambotc: I was going to wait until I've been back to the installer to check out a few things before reporting on the fumes thing.

Once he went on the roof to check out the flue (def. Class 1 with some sort of cap on it - I went to the top of the ladder to peer over the parapet) he seemed to know straightaway what would have been causing the smell and he did explain it to me but I've forgotten the jargon bit so I'll check it out and let you know. He decided to fit the liner just to make absolutely sure (for my neighbours anyway)! The fire doesn't theoretically need a liner.

 

[dancinplumba]

which fire is it ?

 

[spantik]

thanks for this. i feel a bit upset that anyone may even think that I wouldn't pay, but there you are. it sadly is a sign of the times.

i had the hall floor tiled today (great job) by a local guy with his own business who doesn't even ask for a deposit - the tiles were expensive but not as much as a gas fire. Funnily enough i asked him if any customer had ever 'disappeared' without paying and he said 'never'. come and live in N Warwicks!! ..and i still haven't paid - he said just pop into the showroom when you can.....and i will.

 

[spantik]

Atina HE (Kinder BFM)

 

[Nostrum]

thanks for this. i feel a bit upset that anyone may even think that I wouldn't pay, but there you are. it sadly is a sign of the times.

i had the hall floor tiled today (great job) by a local guy with his own business who doesn't even ask for a deposit - the tiles were expensive but not as much as a gas fire. Funnily enough i asked him if any customer had ever 'disappeared' without paying and he said 'never'. come and live in N Warwicks!! ..and i still haven't paid - he said just pop into the showroom when you can.....and i will.

As previously said, it will vary from person to person or business to business. Generally I would have thought that a deposit being required would be the result of a previous bad experience with a non payer, or even just hearing about or knowing about it happening to someone else. Also depends on the cash flow situation of the business in question.

I suppose the best way to look at it is, could you afford to not be paid a months wage because your employer decided not to pay you?

It's unfortunate that both sides of the deal don't trust each other totally, but it's the way of the world these days i guess? You could maybe pay the deposit on a credit card which gives you more protection?

I am going to ask for a deposit on delivery of the goods when I start trading, and have considered a card machine for the above reason, it's interesting although not surprising that this could be off putting to a customer with programs like rogue traders etc just a shame they don't make a program called rogue customers as well so that it can be seen from both sides!!

For my own benefit/research, would you feel more comfortable paying a large deposit on a credit card?

 

[dancinplumba]

looking at bfm kinder atina HE MI'S and you dont need flue liner, unless there are probs with flue.

 

[Nostrum]

Yeah my mistake, I must have mis read it previously. I'm sure the one I did a few years ago said it was compulsory. Can't remember which fire it was though all I remember was the front lifted up on hinges to get to the controls..

 

[Atouchofgas]

Sounds like the chimney might have been breached and that's why he is putting in a liner. As for the deposit is it any different from asking for one when doing a ch installation?

 

[spantik]

As previously said, it will vary from person to person or business to business. Generally I would have thought that a deposit being required would be the result of a previous bad experience with a non payer, or even just hearing about or knowing about it happening to someone else. Also depends on the cash flow situation of the business in question.

I suppose the best way to look at it is, could you afford to not be paid a months wage because your employer decided not to pay you?

It's unfortunate that both sides of the deal don't trust each other totally, but it's the way of the world these days i guess? You could maybe pay the deposit on a credit card which gives you more protection?

I am going to ask for a deposit on delivery of the goods when I start trading, and have considered a card machine for the above reason, it's interesting although not surprising that this could be off putting to a customer with programs like rogue traders etc just a shame they don't make a program called rogue customers as well so that it can be seen from both sides!!

For my own benefit/research, would you feel more comfortable paying a large deposit on a credit card?

Yes I'll pay with a credit card. Would have done anyway but good to have the protection too!