Gas Fire

[Floyd]

When completing a landlord certificate, when we come across a gas fire and it needs to be removed from the builders opening to check the flue etc. I noticed a friends fire that looked like this (See Picture). Obviously this type of fire can't be removed from the builders opening as it looks like a form of precast type.

I wasn't doing a cert on this as it already had one and passed. Looking at the state of this seems as though coals are missing and they all look a little shot. I would have said it had seen its best days.

On this type of fire can we just remove the burner, clean and do all the normal check i.e burner pressure, gas rate, spillage, smoke tests, ventilation, checking fsd's, VGA?

 

[aggis]

From your picture this fire isn't fitted in a pre-cast flue, it's a dgf. You'd need the MI to check it. Especially as it could req' ventilation & should tell you as to the amount of coals.
Carry out all mandatetory safety checks as normal, but on 1st viewing if it looks fluffed up,dirty inform customer as cleaning the burner/pilot is servicing not inspecting.

 

[REDSAW]

thought you asked this one a couple of weeks ago?. asre you still working in it?

 

[Floyd]

Thanks Aggis just what I was looking for.

Yes I did post this a few weeks ago , but I was advised to move this post to the gas registered part of the forum.
My question wasn't answered and no I was never working on it.
But as with inset fires require removing from the opening, I take it this type of fire can't obviously be removed due to it being made of some form of masonry and sealed.

 

[mikeygas]

Floyd as it looks like a basket type fire (DFE) just disconnect the gas line where it meets the restrictor elbow and physically remove the burner unit from the builders opening. Then warm up the chairbrick a little and do a FFT, refit fire then do other checks etc. These are easier to do than ILFE fires as you don't have to muck around trying to undo ( and then re-fit) the steel rope that they have!

 

[mikeygas]

There are shortcuts to doing a FFT on these and on ILFE and radiant fires, but only really seen these done as part of Lgsr where time constraints/pressure were a factor rather than doing the job properly.

 

[stevetheplumber]

just wondering why you would have to remove the burner for a landlords cert on this?

 

[Floyd]

Mikeygas, exactly what I was looking for.
Ok now lets say we have no MI's or data badge.
So you can't get a burner pressure or heat input to gas rate but it passes a FFT and spillage.
Does the fire pass or fail a lgsr or do you decline the job. What's everyone's opinion?

 

[mikeygas]

Steve, if you look at my last post I said there are shortcuts to doing a FFT on these, especially when doing a Landlords cert. Which we both know does not need the burner removing as the FFT is done with the burner in-situ.
The OP was under the impression that you couldn't remove the burner from the builders opening, so I just answered his question on how to do it. Hope this helps mate!

Floydy, if you had no MI's or data plate how do you know that you were checking for spillage in the correct place on the fire? I would classify the fire as AR and do as per the 6th edition, with label and notice etc. Landlords checks are not pass or fail so do paperwork as above and note it on the Landlords Cert.

 

[Floyd]

Yes MG I agree with the MI and spillage but AR is a fail and should be isolated, warning notice issued and labled. That's what I was taught. Also your input on this post is appreciated. Thanks mate.

 

[mikeygas]

Floydy AR dosn't mean you isolate the appliance (i.e cap-off). All it mean's is that with the customers permission you turn it off, which in the case of the fire above would be at the restrictor elbow, as long as you cover yourself with a Warning notice and label and make a note of it on your paperwork.

If the customer saw how you turned it off and then the fire "miraculously" turned itself back on after you left the property you would be covered as you have done your job properly with regards to notices and paperwork.

 

[Floyd]

MG, yes I did mean isolate at elbow sorry. You only cap off if ID, with consent. Bit of a grey area as not all fires have restrictor elbows?
So on a Landlord Cert, the question is, Appliance safe to use ?? (This is a Pass or Fail question)?

 

[aggis]

If no MI or Data plate, it's AR, turn off, warning notices & inform that if uses appliance they're breaking reg's & liable. Would need to issolate/disconnect if spillage,flue problems or major safety issues ID.

 

[mikeygas]

Floydy, on a Landlords Cert If I was putting my name on it then I would say that the appliance is not safe to use as you have turned it off, labelled it, and given it a notice, which is carrying out procedures in the "Unsafe" situations and procedures 6th edition book. That's just my take on it using my "engineering judgement"?

Maybe Kirky can advise using the gospel