Gas Hob KW's....

[henly1234]

.... anyone any idea, I always put 12.5kw on my certs, no idea if that's correct or not.

 

[AWheating]

they are all different and you need to test and compare to the data badge if your working on the appliance.

are you saying you just guess your values on a gas cert?

 

[ShaunCorbs]

look at the data plate

 

[henly1234]

Never seen a data badge on a built in hob in a rented property yet, unless I take out the oven which opens another can of worms and how can they be different when they have the same burners etc, nearly always generic, same pattern.

And, no not guessed but in the back of my mind I believe I read it in a Gas Safe bulletin. so don't jump to conclusions.

Also not working on a appliance but doing a LL cert not the same thing to my mind.

 

[Billy Bob Bob]

.... anyone any idea, I always put 12.5kw on my certs, no idea if that's correct or not.

do you not gas rate them?bearing in mind its a flueless appliance

 

[ShaunCorbs]

Never seen a data badge on a built in hob in a rented property yet, unless I take out the oven which opens another can of worms and how can they be different when they have the same burners etc, nearly always generic, same pattern.

And, no not guessed but in the back of my mind I believe I read it in a Gas Safe bulletin. so don't jump to conclusions.

Also not working on a appliance but doing a LL cert not the same thing to my mind.

so how do you know there connected right at the rear

 

[wattsie1987]

Gas rating the appliance would be where I'd be starting. About 8kw is average for a four ring hob.

 

[Billy Bob Bob]

for anyone that finds gas rating a pain,i suggest one of the apps out there ,if your on android the mr combi one is excellent,if your on windows gb gas does one,saves time,i refused to accept apps were accurate for a long time,gas safe except them and they do work well

 

[Billy Bob Bob]

also guys,if the op requires any help,i would like to feel their not afraid to ask on this forum,nobody knows it all and i would really be disappointed if help was not offered if needed ,who are we if we can not help,educate and enhance working practices within our industry ,i have seen people afraid to ask before,i would rather it was the opposite and questions ,if unsure,where asked without fear of ridicule and the correct information obtained ,i am not pointing fingers at anyone in this thread,you have all answered as i would expect

 

[Rickster123]

That moment when you wish you'd kept a question in your head....:yesnod:

 

[dave1]

also guys,if the op requires any help,i would like to feel their not afraid to ask on this forum,nobody knows it all and i would really be disappointed if help was not offered if needed ,who are we if we can not help,educate and enhance working practices within our industry ,i have seen people afraid to ask before,i would rather it was the opposite and questions ,if unsure,where asked without fear of ridicule and the correct information obtained ,i am not pointing fingers at anyone in this thread,you have all answered as i would expect

Well said.

 

[ShaunCorbs]

this is how i do it

Turn all the appliances OFF.

Record the meter reading. (example shows a reading of 00048.104m3)



Turn the appliance under test to FULL ON.

At the same time as turning the appliance on start recording the time

When exactly two minutes have elapsed record the meter reading. (example shows a reading of 00048.188m3)



Subtract the first reading from the second reading. This will give you the volume of gas passed in m3.

Gas rate over two minutes: -
= 48.188
-48.104
= 00.084 m3

Therefore the Gas Rate over 1 minute
= 00.084 m3 ÷ 2
= 0.042m3

So to calculate the hourly consumption, the gas rate for 1 minute is multiplied by the number of minutes in an hour.

Therefore Gas Rate/hour
= 0.042 x 60
= 2.52m3/hr

We can convert this figure to cubic feet by multiplying the figure by 35.37.

Therefore 2.52 x 35.37 = 89.1324ft3/hr

Gross Heat Input = 89.1324 x 1040 = 92697 Btu/hr (27.16 KW)

To assist in the process, the chart below has been configured to provide an easy reference. It is based on a GROSS CV of 38.79MJ/m3 (1040 Btu/ft3). So in our example over a two minute period 0.084m3 is used, look at the table below for 0.080 = 2.40 m3/hr (25.8KW) and 0.004 = 0.12m3/hr (1.3KW). Add the two together 2.40 + 0.12 = 2.52m3/hr and a gross input of

25.8 + 1.3 = 27.1KW

 

[kris]

Never seen a data badge on a built in hob in a rented property yet, unless I take out the oven which opens another can of worms and how can they be different when they have the same burners etc, nearly always generic, same pattern.

And, no not guessed but in the back of my mind I believe I read it in a Gas Safe bulletin. so don't jump to conclusions.

Also not working on a appliance but doing a LL cert not the same thing to my mind.

I always take the ovens out to look at the data badge because u need to document the make and model which are only underneath on data badge, , also I inspect the pipework going to the hob, best to gas rate or check gas pressure at the hot plate rather than simply write down a kW , better practise ,,

 

[kris]

Like gasman says the Mr combi apps are great tools and simple to use,

 

[IND_Nick]

I always take the oven out, check the badge and pipework, it takes a minute. If there is a 'can of worms' behind there then you can quote to put right or carry out correct procedures either way it is time and money. The one thing I would say with gas work is don't guess as one day you may need to explain your actions and ' I simply guessed' may not do you any favours. Google holds most answers!

 

[hammers4spanner]

I always take oven out even if it's just to check how it's piped , piece if mind imho

 

[henly1234]

I work for LL's and estate agents in the lower end of the rented market, (anyone who knows Chatham and Gillingham knows what I'm talking about), the kitchens in most of the properties leave a lot to be desired, if I started pulling out ovens then pretty soon the housing would start falling apart and I wouldn't be thanked for that.


Its ok for you guys who work in the general market to be handing out advice as though butter wouldn't melt, but in the real world I've got to get a fine balance going between the LL's interest and the safety of the tenant. I know some of the things that are border line most of you would tut tut and condemn but at the end of the day its my job to keep things moving, I keep an honest ship and wouldn't do anything that's not above board just for the LL's sake but by the same token I would'nt condemn just because a prv terminates 6 inches above the ground, my LL's know and respect that.

Most of the faults i deal with are NCS, and get noted as such on the cert and most of the time they are dealt with maybe not immediately and generally by me (once a price is given and agreed to, in some cases months).

Not all older hobs in fact most don't have data plates and I'm talking Moffats, Zannussis, MFI etc and its those I'm taking about, I look to see if the flame has a good picture and if the safety devices work and if they all stay alight at high and low etc and if that's ok then it is good enough for me, and, incidentally most of the inspectors that have examine me.

I'm looking for safety aspects not a perfect score, and for all those who say that's not right let him who is without sin etc, we all do it, so don't make out you don't.

Bearing in mind my market, if I went along the lines some of you suggest then it wouldn't be long before the LL's were employing another gas registered engineer who would not be so stringent.

 

[Rickster123]

.... anyone any idea, I always put 12.5kw on my certs, no idea if that's correct or not.

I think the issue is that you're just guessing the kW of the appliance. How can you be certain that the appliance is working safely? You're writing false information on a gas cert and signing your name to it. I'm sure hundreds of others do the same but that's not really the point. If something goes lemon and you end up in court "I always put 12.5kw" will land you in the poo.

 

[newcastle phill]

Stickers always on the underside mith exact model no. Then get hold of mi, if eleccy oven under it often just 4 screws.
If fitted by wickes or b & Screw, often just slid in and not secured correctly lol

 

[goz666]

I work for LL's and estate agents in the lower end of the rented market, (anyone who knows Chatham and Gillingham knows what I'm talking about), the kitchens in most of the properties leave a lot to be desired, if I started pulling out ovens then pretty soon the housing would start falling apart and I wouldn't be thanked for that.

Its ok for you guys who work in the general market to be handing out advice as though butter wouldn't melt, but in the real world I've got to get a fine balance going between the LL's interest and the safety of the tenant. I know some of the things that are border line most of you would tut tut and condemn but at the end of the day its my job to keep things moving, I keep an honest ship and wouldn't do anything that's not above board just for the LL's sake but by the same token I would'nt condemn just because a prv terminates 6 inches above the ground, my LL's know and respect that.

Most of the faults i deal with are NCS, and get noted as such on the cert and most of the time they are dealt with maybe not immediately and generally by me (once a price is given and agreed to, in some cases months).

Not all older hobs in fact most don't have data plates and I'm talking Moffats, Zannussis, MFI etc and its those I'm taking about, I look to see if the flame has a good picture and if the safety devices work and if they all stay alight at high and low etc and if that's ok then it is good enough for me, and, incidentally most of the inspectors that have examine me.

I'm looking for safety aspects not a perfect score, and for all those who say that's not right let him who is without sin etc, we all do it, so don't make out you don't.

Bearing in mind my market, if I went along the lines some of you suggest then it wouldn't be long before the LL's were employing another gas registered engineer who would not be so stringent.

I can see where you're coming from pal there's a lot of properties round here with 'old' gas appliances. I think you would be better off 'N/A' where it says KW if you aren't sure. Put down what you have tested including good flame picture etc and leave it at that. First thing they would ask you in court or a GS inspector is where did you get 12.5kw from....and then you are bu88ered if you say I made it up. Stick to facts.....PYA.

 

[TFGplumbing]

Take the operating pressure instead to make sure it's getting 20mbar when the other appliances are on full wack and 3/4 rings are alight. You can record operating pressure or heat input

 

[hammers4spanner]

I work for LL's and estate agents in the lower end of the rented market, (anyone who knows Chatham and Gillingham knows what I'm talking about), the kitchens in most of the properties leave a lot to be desired, if I started pulling out ovens then pretty soon the housing would start falling apart and I wouldn't be thanked for that.


Its ok for you guys who work in the general market to be handing out advice as though butter wouldn't melt, but in the real world I've got to get a fine balance going between the LL's interest and the safety of the tenant. I know some of the things that are border line most of you would tut tut and condemn but at the end of the day its my job to keep things moving, I keep an honest ship and wouldn't do anything that's not above board just for the LL's sake but by the same token I would'nt condemn just because a prv terminates 6 inches above the ground, my LL's know and respect that.

Most of the faults i deal with are NCS, and get noted as such on the cert and most of the time they are dealt with maybe not immediately and generally by me (once a price is given and agreed to, in some cases months).

Not all older hobs in fact most don't have data plates and I'm talking Moffats, Zannussis, MFI etc and its those I'm taking about, I look to see if the flame has a good picture and if the safety devices work and if they all stay alight at high and low etc and if that's ok then it is good enough for me, and, incidentally most of the inspectors that have examine me.

I'm looking for safety aspects not a perfect score, and for all those who say that's not right let him who is without sin etc, we all do it, so don't make out you don't.

Bearing in mind my market, if I went along the lines some of you suggest then it wouldn't be long before the LL's were employing another gas registered engineer who would not be so stringent.

This post is exactly why i would not entertain working at this end of the market , i get my fair share of idiots but its upto me if i want to work for them .Unfortunately it sounds like your work is tied in at this end .

 

[AWheating]

are you being asked/paid to do safety check on the appliance or just a visual risk assessment?

if your doing a visual only then you do not need to gas rate it, just your normal visual risk assessment (position, secure, ventilation, signs of distress, flue) and a flame picture if you have interupted the gas supply.

if you are doing a safety check then you need to find and check the data badge, if the data badge is not available you can not confirm the correct safe working of the applaince and you should take action untill you can get your hands on the information needed.

as for gas cert information, its best to record all visual risk assessments but not a requirement, all information should be correct.

most hobs are around 6-8kw upto around 9-10kw if 5 ringers on average.