Gas leak help

[danja]

Hi all,

I recently fit a new combi and the next day national grid were called out to a gas escape at the job.

My employer went to investigate it and check the national grid report. Turns out the leak was from an existing fitting near where I was working.

My employer has accused of not completing a tightness test at the end of the job despite the fact that I have recorded it on the paper work and logged it on the computers we use to input results and appliances. Everything on the job was completed properly(paper work and existing appliance defects all recorded), I have a perfect safety record, we have several jobs inspected each year and I have had a completely clean record since 2011 when I was still in training and have never had any safety related problems. After this gas leak the company checked 5 more of my jobs and found no problems.

My point is that I have no history of unsafe working but still get accused of not completing our most important safety check. I attended a disciplinary and the company conceded that they believe I did the tightness test but they say I must have somehow disturbed the pipe afterwards causing the old fitting to crack. As such I have been given written warning.

I recorded my tightness test at 17.45 pm on Friday afternoon and the gas leak was not reported to national grid until 14.45 pm Saturday, the following day. This is 21 hours after I worked on the gas. The national grid engineer reported a full drop on his tightness test.

Is it even possible for a leak of at least 20mb over 2 minutes could go undetected for 21 hours? That's 12.6 bar of gas leaking into the room over that period of time. The customers mother is an invalid and lives in a room which is open plan to the boiler position, she has 24 hour care so the place is permanently occupied. How could I leave a leak of that size and it go undetected for 21 hours? Plus the fact that during that time someone else could have disturbed the pipe.

So the question is can they justifiably give me a written warning on the strength of them believing I "must" have disturbed the pipe after my tightness test?

Any input would be greatly appreciated.

 

[kris]

I would say ye s as this shouldve and would've been picked up on a tightness test. With That big of a drop it sounds like an unsoldered fitting. An un soldered but fluxed fitting can not show as low pressure but fact remains it was a big drop.

 

[Reg Man]

It's a difficult one, as you can only say it was gas tight at the time you tested it. How long there after are you responsible for the tightness of the installation? As it was on existing pipework not really your problem, unless there was something visually wrong with the old pipe.

 

[kris]

That's a query . When does new become existing lol

Everything depends on where your leak was ie was it close to a fitting u soldered. We would need more info on position and cause of leak.

 

[AlexGas]

Is it even possible for a leak of at least 20mb over 2 minutes could go undetected for 21 hours?

Yes

So the question is can they justifiably give me a written warning on the strength of them believing I "must" have disturbed the pipe after my tightness test?

Yes, you are the last man in.

 

[bright spark]

Lucky nothing bad happened. Then you'd be in another predicament.

 

[Unregistered]

Yes



Yes, you are the last man in.

Thanks for the input.

Yes I was the last man in but I tested the gas and there was no drop so something has happened in the 21 hours between me leaving and National Grid being called.

Also I would disagree that a leak of that size could go undetected for that long in a permanently occupied room but that's just my opinion, I would like to know what other people think about that.

 

[kris]

Unfortunately mate it's your word against there's and it's gonna be an easy case for them to win, like Alex says you were the last man there, they will automatically think you never done a test because the chances of the leak happening the day after you was there is hugely coincidental or plain bad timing,
At the end of the day it all depends where the leak was and was it close to your work as this kind of factors could make or break your case,

 

[kris]

Thanks for the input.

Yes I was the last man in but I tested the gas and there was no drop so something has happened in the 21 hours between me leaving and National Grid being called.

Also I would disagree that a leak of that size could go undetected for that long in a permanently occupied room but that's just my opinion, I would like to know what other people think about that.

Can you tell us where the leak was and how close to the area u were working , just so we can get a better idea , was the. Leak outside , inside , above floor underfloor, ?....????? Cheers mate

 

[GasmanxxxR1]

Hi all,

I recently fit a new combi and the next day national grid were called out to a gas escape at the job.

My employer went to investigate it and check the national grid report. Turns out the leak was from an existing fitting near where I was working.

My employer has accused of not completing a tightness test at the end of the job despite the fact that I have recorded it on the paper work and logged it on the computers we use to input results and appliances. Everything on the job was completed properly(paper work and existing appliance defects all recorded), I have a perfect safety record, we have several jobs inspected each year and I have had a completely clean record since 2011 when I was still in training and have never had any safety related problems. After this gas leak the company checked 5 more of my jobs and found no problems.

My point is that I have no history of unsafe working but still get accused of not completing our most important safety check. I attended a disciplinary and the company conceded that they believe I did the tightness test but they say I must have somehow disturbed the pipe afterwards causing the old fitting to crack. As such I have been given written warning.

I recorded my tightness test at 17.45 pm on Friday afternoon and the gas leak was not reported to national grid until 14.45 pm Saturday, the following day. This is 21 hours after I worked on the gas. The national grid engineer reported a full drop on his tightness test.

Is it even possible for a leak of at least 20mb over 2 minutes could go undetected for 21 hours? That's 12.6 bar of gas leaking into the room over that period of time. The customers mother is an invalid and lives in a room which is open plan to the boiler position, she has 24 hour care so the place is permanently occupied. How could I leave a leak of that size and it go undetected for 21 hours? Plus the fact that during that time someone else could have disturbed the pipe.

So the question is can they justifiably give me a written warning on the strength of them believing I "must" have disturbed the pipe after my tightness test?

Any input would be greatly appreciated.

Did you have a union rep with you?

 

[Reg Man]

May be a better question. What was the leak caused by?

 

[danja]

May be a better question. What was the leak caused by?

That's the problem, we don't know. The existing fitting that leaked seems to have a pin hole in the solder, they had to put it under water and pressurize it tell where it leaked from but the fitting has been there at least 10 years. It wasn't leaking when I did the tightness test

 

[Reg Man]

It would be unfair to hold you responsible then. Water testing the offending it is not very helpful as an investigation technic. Amateurish investigation. Best advice for future, is to test for tightness and record as last thing you do on the works. Could have happened when whipping down and clearing up.

 

[stevetheplumber]

in future do the tightness test on your fga and print out the results staple it to the benchmark

 

[wetdrip]

Where is the pipe positioned i.e. is it exposed to say a wheelchair hitting it?

 

[Atouchofgas]

Not all fga have that facility

 

[stevetheplumber]

Not all fga have that facility

if i was working for a company that had given me a written warning for it i would insist on having one that could

 

[Atouchofgas]

if i was working for a company that had given me a written warning for it i would insist on having one that could

Ah, see where you are coming from now and totally agree, but the date and time can be fiddled with on the machine

 

[kris]

Ah, see where you are coming from now and totally agree, but the date and time can be fiddled with on the machine

But can't be changed on a printout

 

[kris]

I leave printouts with every job I do with the fga, even its a 3min tightness test i use it for couple reasons , mainly for arse covering and proof of results but also because it looks professional, it looks even better when you hook fga to software on laptop and get the proper a4 testo printout,
Also when you return to that job in a year or 2s time you've readings saved on your machine that you can compare with new ones,

 

[helpsy]

Similarly a car could pass an MOT, owner then drives off garage premises onto highway in front of police car, stops at next junction and no brake lights working and gets a ticket. Yet it passed 10 mins previously!

 

[solutions]

I leave printouts with every job I do with the fga, even its a 3min tightness test i use it for couple reasons , mainly for arse covering and proof of results but also because it looks professional, it looks even better when you hook fga to software on laptop and get the proper a4 testo printout,
Also when you return to that job in a year or 2s time you've readings saved on your machine that you can compare with new ones,

But it doesnt record that you had the hose pinched.

 

[mad_angler1]

Feel for you on this as I know where your coming from. I am not gas safe registered but look after a number of GS engineers for my company (Team leader). Since getting the job I have learnt huge amounts of the GS regulations and how it all works. We have had a numbers of engineers put through the ringer for stuff they did not do or miss, I have come to one conclusion with Gas. You fine until something goes wrong, and when It does go wrong regardless of fault your going to get screwed.

Companies seem so scared of Gas Safe they have to blame some one to show it won't happen again.

We recently had a very similar incident. Gas safe wanted blood even though the engineer did nothing wrong.

 

[newcastle phill]

Raises a question in my mind that do
Electronic printout tightness tests carry anymore weight than just being honest and jotting it down...

In other words would we still be having this conversation if it was printed out.

A question I ponder to myself on different occasions as I loath using the kane for TT and prefer the U - but I am mindful of the shortcomings when you may need proof.....

 

[rocketmanbkk]

in future do the tightness test on your fga and print out the results staple it to the benchmark

I like this comment even though I don't deal with gas.