Gas leak missed on landlords gas safety check, what to do?

[stephen_g]

Hi All,

I'm looking for some advice please.
An elderly relative has just moved into a rented flat. She arranged for an engineer to come on January26th and fit her gas cooker.
The engineer discovered a gas leak on the pipework (drop of 1.5mb with no appliances connected).
We informed National Grid who came in, checked the meter (it was OK), and confirmed that there was a leak from the property pipework.
They isolated the gas supply.

What is worrying is that the landlord had a gas safety check done on 29th December, but the leak was not spotted on that check, even though the engineer indicated that a gas tightness check had been satisfactory.
Should we report this?
Is it serious enough to do so?
What would the consequences be for the engineer who failed to spot the leak?

Stephen

 

[Puddle]

Well you do not know if he failed to spot a leak and he probably did not

A gas inspection was done a month before, it only gives a snap shot of the installation at the time the inspection was done, a gas leak or other fault could develope the same afternoon or the next day, you are putting two and two together and coming up with 5.you have nothing to report

That is why we have yearly inspections, a things develop all the time


All you have proved is the system of having competent gas operatives to carry out works has worked in this case, leak was detected when cooker was being installed, due to correct tests and installation was made safe

imho

 

[SimonJohns]

How do you know there was a leak?
Did you move anything in the flat.
It doesn't take much to cause a leak. And I don't think pointing the finger is going to help

 

[stephen_g]

Hi both,

Thanks for the replies.
I know that there was a leak because I was shown the pipe that had a crack in it. The pipe was removed from the concrete floor when he was investigating the leak.
As he dug out the floor to expose the pipe, the smell of gas became stronger, and the leak detector device indicated a leak.
Nothing had been moved in the flat in the area where the leak was found.

Just to emphasise, I'm not looking to point the finger or get anyone into trouble.I'm just aware that safety is an important issue and feel that we may have been lucky not to have had a more serious problem.

Regards

Stephen


Regards
Stephen

 

[secret squirrel]

Hello Stephen,

The problem is with pipe that it rots over a period of time. No one is going to argue that there is a gas leak the issue is whether there was a gas leak a month earlier.

Think of another situation,

You get your car MOT'd the brakes and steering all pass, a month later you hear screeching on the front wheels. You take your car to a mechanic and he informs you that your brakes are shot.

This doesn't mean that they were shot a month earlier it means that due to wear and tear the brakes became knackered.

If you report the situation to the DOT they will look at the situation and say 'at the time the MOT was completed the brakes and brake lines were within the permitted limits'

This is the same as a gas safe inspection, at the time it was completed and a tightness test was done it would have been correct, a month later or even a week later it develops a problem.

Unfortunately, its not unheard of for things like this to happen. Not saying your pointing fingers etc but the engineer is not to blame for this.

 

[kirkgas]

you are right to show concern but there will be no gain from reporting this to anyone as the facts as you quote them are simply that on a certain day a gas leak was found and properly dealt with, what happened 5 minutes before the leak was discovered means hee-haw, and under different circumstances reporting dangerous work, poor work or any kind of contravention will result in the HSE via Gas Safe taking hee-haw action as well, if no body is hurt and no property is damaged then nothing will be done, even although the gas engineer has a legal obligation to complete a RIDDOR form

 

[mikegas]

1.5 mbar is within tolerance anyway, he doesnt have to isolate appliances to determine if its on pipework or not

 

[rm1]

1.5 mbar is within tolerance anyway, he doesnt have to isolate appliances to determine if its on pipework or not

mikegas that is correct if the tenant does not smell gas however if i was carrying out a safety check on a void property and had a leak there is no way i would leave it i would isolate the appliances to verify it was not on the carcass imho

 

[mikegas]

mikegas that is correct if the tenant does not smell gas however if i was carrying out a safety check on a void property and had a leak there is no way i would leave it i would isolate the appliances to verify it was not on the carcass imho

we can only go off what the op has said and he never said a smell of gas was reported at the time of the test, if you go beyond the regs then thats up to you however the op is asking if the engineer who carried out the cp12 was at fault leaving the 1.5 mbar leak and on ifo provided i would say no

 

[diamondgas]

Only a gas cooker in the flat, no gas central heating? ...............Anyhoo's The landlords safety check carried out before your relative moved in, I assume, was done with an appliance fitted. As mikegas points out, there is a permissable drop allowed and 1.5mbar is well within that allowance.

 

[rm1]

what mikegas and diamond gas is saying is correct and i do not dispute that however where the property has been vacant then i would always investigate further

 

[desrob]

some people just love having issues,nobodys at fault,job well done ,there's more important things to worry abut

 

[stevetheplumber]

interesting to know if at the time of the certificate was there a previous cooker fitted has that been remove since ?

 

[Mbear]

Appliances connected, 4mb drop allowed. Move along nothing to see here.

To answer the OP, reporting this will get u nowhere, the eng has done everything correct.
Two possibilities
1) the eng noticed the drop and recorded it.
2) there was no drop at check and then drop developed after l/l check done.

 

[REDSAW]

well done for being conscientious to safety.

now you can be prepared and inform the landlord to stump up a few hundred for the new gas carcass required and all will be good.

 

[AWheating]

1.5mb drop with appliances connected and no smell or reported smell of gas = pass. Its the engineers choice if he/she wants to investigate further. Sounds like the engineer did nothing wrong in respect of the leak.

 

[gasmarc]

I cannot see what the problem is myself , It sounds like you are saying the guy has not done his job correctly which is wrong as you dont know what you are talking about imho

 

[stephen_g]

Hi All,

Thanks for all of the comments, and to gasmarc who feels that I don't know what I am talking about, apologies for the misunderstanding.
I have no experience in gas fitting or regulations. My concern in this matter relates to safety,and I was trying to understand how a landlord's safety check could indicate that a gas tightness test was satisfactory, yet four weeks later a leak is dicovered which requires the gas to be disconnected by National Grid. I was not seeking to point the finger, or to get anyone into trouble (which was was I asked for advice). I felt that there may have been a requirement for me to highlight this issue.
Just to clarify the 1.5mb drop was on the pipework alone, no appliances connected.

Stephen

 

[Pssst]

I dont see a problem here.

 

[AWheating]

Hi All,

Thanks for all of the comments, and to gasmarc who feels that I don't know what I am talking about, apologies for the misunderstanding.
I have no experience in gas fitting or regulations. My concern in this matter relates to safety,and I was trying to understand how a landlord's safety check could indicate that a gas tightness test was satisfactory, yet four weeks later a leak is dicovered which requires the gas to be disconnected by National Grid. I was not seeking to point the finger, or to get anyone into trouble (which was was I asked for advice). I felt that there may have been a requirement for me to highlight this issue.
Just to clarify the 1.5mb drop was on the pipework alone, no appliances connected.

Stephen

hi, stephen

The previous landlord safety check had atleast one appliance connected but now the property is empty and has no appliances connected.....is this correct?

if you perform a tightness test with one or more appliances connected you are allowed a drop of 4mb or less (8mb if its an e6 meter) as long as there is no smell of gas. If you perform a tightness test on pipework only with no appliances connected then you are not allowed any drop.

so if the last engineer did an lanlord cert with appliances connected he/she did nothing wrong in the eyes of the law. There is nothing in the regs that requires you to identify if a leak is down to an appliance or pipework in this situation.

i hope this helps.