GAS & LECCY allways going up

[efficiencyman]

The news again today energy companies putting up prices about 10 % again. . Perhaps it`s the Goverment allowing the energy companies to rip us off with ever increasing GAS & LECCY prices, with OFFGAS & OFGEN to turn a blind eye, either way they are a waste of our TAX money to be toothless in preventing our energy prices being one of the higher prices in Europe. Or is that the government receive such big a levy from our energy bills ?
I have also seen that the government has released the latest RHI figures, a statement that Heat Pump installs are up 77% on last year. Maybe more of us really are waking up to the Heat Pump savings that can made, if we do it the most advantageous ways by ensuring Maximum COP ratings are used. Joe publics average income is in a price freeze so unless we can all lower our heat losses with homes insulated to passivehaus standards, how can this continue ?. I am still looking at ways for better airtightness to stop my losses, any low cost ideas ? Can anyone suggest the cheapest way to recover heat with MVHR ?
I am glad to be one the 77% having fitted a heat pump last year (working great but only as a Hybrid)

 

[SimonG]

77% of not a lot is still not a lot. Still a long way to go.

What construction house you got, easier to give ideas of airtightness.

 

[efficiencyman]

Hi Simon, I have cap sealed cavity walls, filled with blown glass wool insulation in all outside walls of a 1968 built semi. Both doors are fitted with neoprene seals & all windows are double glazed including attic dorma & Velux. Both bathrooms and kitchen have extract fans all with auto shut when not in use. I have a 6 Mtr fully D/Gazed conservatory at the rear with 5" of foam insulation under a 4" reinforced concrete slab with hepo UFHeating topped with ceramic tiles. This zone a Koi pond and 4 other zones are all controlled digital stats & heated by an `A` rated condensing gas boiler but I found the Gas consumption was quite high. Last year my son moved into a hybrid heated new build in reading with a heat pump, this set me considering doing something similar. After lots of enquiries with horrendous quotes I then installed a 15 Kw Dream heat pump for £1500 plus a few offcuts of copper & 2 Tees plus an ambient control system that only lets the H/P work when above a COP of 2.5 to 3 adjustable ( I wanted to fiddle with the auto settings ) to enable efficient operation and not let it ice over ( it costs to melt ice ) in such conditions it`s more efficient to burn gas ( going on last winter 20% ). The heat pump is producing 80% of my heat demand of 10 rads & the above, even with the lower temp output of about 50 degs. as I have over sized the 2 downstairs rads so it attains set temps very rapid. I do not use my Hybrid in tandem but with a delay timer to dissipate the higher gas boiler temp when the ambient stat switches over to H/Pump. I usually set the stat to avoid any ice formation on the evaporator ( may happen depending on temps & humidity ) but its not a problem as my H/P works down to -15 they don`t make it clear that it may not be efficient to do so, because the defrost cycle may keep cutting in. My control system only allows H/P to run if higher COP`s can be achieved. As Punch said to Judy `That`s the way to do it` after a year of trial I am well pleased with a Hybrid set up gives the best of both and cost me well under £1700 to buy & install. For those considering a hybrid I did think about RHI but it was not worth the cost and all the extra bother for MCS which would have cost me 6 times plus, for a system little better (if any) for a questionable incentive with many years to pay off. I had it installed a few hours work, had it operational the day after CODelivery as it worked straight out the box. The Dream has default settings these can be altered in the programming but I wanted to wire in my own extra digistat, I contacted supplier who instantly emailed me which link on the PCB to connect my wiring, impressed with service, product and performance. Although I would have liked an inverta type compressor but the extra cost would have been over £6000, that would have extended the pay back time, so not worth it for me, as I wanted to cut my gas consumption this last year and I did. Thanks for your time, interest and helpful advice for better energy efficiency on this super forum.

 

[Worcester]

The RHI register only has a TOTAL of 59 heat pumps installed - 77% increase on diddly squat is still diddly squat.

There are only a TOTAL of 2495 installations regsitered on the RHI and 2348 of those are Biomass

They aren't yet counting RHPP applications

The current RHI budget is UNDERSPENT by 92% !!!!!

 

[SimonG]

Hi Simon, I have cap sealed cavity walls, filled with blown glass wool insulation in all outside walls of a 1968 built semi. Both doors are fitted with neoprene seals & all windows are double glazed including attic dorma & Velux. Both bathrooms and kitchen have extract fans all with auto shut when not in use. I have a 6 Mtr fully D/Gazed conservatory at the rear with 5" of foam insulation under a 4" reinforced concrete slab with hepo UFHeating topped with ceramic tiles. This zone a Koi pond and 4 other zones are all controlled digital stats & heated by an `A` rated condensing gas boiler but I found the Gas consumption was quite high. Last year my son moved into a hybrid heated new build in reading with a heat pump, this set me considering doing something similar. After lots of enquiries with horrendous quotes I then installed a 15 Kw Dream heat pump for £1500 plus a few offcuts of copper & 2 Tees plus an ambient control system that only lets the H/P work when above a COP of 2.5 to 3 adjustable ( I wanted to fiddle with the auto settings ) to enable efficient operation and not let it ice over ( it costs to melt ice ) in such conditions it`s more efficient to burn gas ( going on last winter 20% ). The heat pump is producing 80% of my heat demand of 10 rads & the above, even with the lower temp output of about 50 degs. as I have over sized the 2 downstairs rads so it attains set temps very rapid. I do not use my Hybrid in tandem but with a delay timer to dissipate the higher gas boiler temp when the ambient stat switches over to H/Pump. I usually set the stat to avoid any ice formation on the evaporator ( may happen depending on temps & humidity ) but its not a problem as my H/P works down to -15 they don`t make it clear that it may not be efficient to do so, because the defrost cycle may keep cutting in. My control system only allows H/P to run if higher COP`s can be achieved. As Punch said to Judy `That`s the way to do it` after a year of trial I am well pleased with a Hybrid set up gives the best of both and cost me well under £1700 to buy & install. For those considering a hybrid I did think about RHI but it was not worth the cost and all the extra bother for MCS which would have cost me 6 times plus, for a system little better (if any) for a questionable incentive with many years to pay off. I had it installed a few hours work, had it operational the day after CODelivery as it worked straight out the box. The Dream has default settings these can be altered in the programming but I wanted to wire in my own extra digistat, I contacted supplier who instantly emailed me which link on the PCB to connect my wiring, impressed with service, product and performance. Although I would have liked an inverta type compressor but the extra cost would have been over £6000, that would have extended the pay back time, so not worth it for me, as I wanted to cut my gas consumption this last year and I did. Thanks for your time, interest and helpful advice for better energy efficiency on this super forum.

How about a heat recovery system on your extractors, not cheap, but you haven't left too many other options

 

[Ray Stafford]

The current RHI budget is UNDERSPENT by 92% !!!!!

And the political climate is moving in the other direction.

 

[efficiencyman]

Thanks Simon, I have considered Heat recovery for more years than I care to remember, but the high`ish cost and unsightly duct work would look an expensive eyesore. Regards RHI & the MCS requirements and extra costs involved, no wonder registered H/P installs are low. The import sales are far higher for non registered , A/C systems with H/P, Hybrids like mine, my supplier alone imports container loads every month from China. They are just not being registered because of MCS costs. The DIY installer & swimming pool installs are good, and I know the Koi fish trade are selling them like hot cakes.! Sorry Worcester if your sales of H/Pumps are low, I hope the trade picks up for you. I am sure the market is there for ASHP, especially if the price is right, unfortunately Ground Source is so expensive and I don`t think that`s viable for many, there is hope for these alternatives with constant rising energy prices, imports of Gas, Paying the French (EDF) billions and was it for thirty five years of extortion for money we (apparently ) don`t have. Is that another national disaster ? We poured millions in to Harwell developing Nuclear energy & let it go around the world for others to profit from ? Just like the Hovercraft, the Tilting HS train, etc. etc. etc. Now that the Chinese are knocking out ASHP by the millions at a viable cost to install, perhaps there is way forward with heat from thin AIR ! perhaps not with all the empty air talk about renewables.

 

[Worcester]

@efficiencyman, I didn't say are sales were low , they're not.

It's just the figures that are reported that are wrong and misleading.

There are hundreds and hundreds of MCS registered ASHP's and GSHP's - they just aren't registered for the RHI yet.

(Oh and as an aside we've got two HP installs for next week one a GSHP/LPG hybrid and the other an ASHP/Oil hybrid ) If you're on oil and have the land then a GSHP is the best investment, and we can arrange the capital

 

[efficiencyman]

That's brilliant Worcester I am encouraged to read about all the positives. All the best in providing energy solutions, over coming the difficulties and presenting knowledgeable answers to the negative knocks on here. Sorry about me assuming sales were low due to RHI figures being misleading & my own reasons for not going down the MCS route. Regards the 77% at reading that I thought great achievement, then seeing the reply stats were not representative of true overall sales. Also the 92% underspend shows there`s a long way go for Joe public to latch on to the benefits.

 

[Ermintrude]

Yeh good luck us city slickers can't even get solar due to conservation area, listed buildings and residents associations. ( who have a legal input into planning a Applications) £500k new build no solar no external ashp.

 

[Worcester]

What's a city? Do you mean people actually live right next to each other? Saw Joe t'other day at the other end of the field, was worried he was getting a bit close, he was just after one of his cows though (she was running away from him again, been a bit of a habit since his misses left him 18 months ago). The even threatened to run the snow plough up here twice last year, wondered what the **&&$!? it was, hadn't seen one in two years, so used to getting shut in for 5 days at a trot.
arty:arty:arty:

 

[chris watkins]

Roll on all these H/P's replacing the gas or oil fuels but at what true cost ? Even at 3:1 or 4:1 the increase in the electrical demand at a time when we have not got the generating capacity to supply our present needs is adding to our problems. (& the light really could be going out in a town near you some time soon)

Is encouraging the increase use of electricity such a wise move being that the efficiency of generating & transporting it are so very very low ?

Seems to me, we the public, are just not being encouraged / allowed to having an adult debate before our elected representatives make such monumental decisions about energy future & spending our money on support scheme.

Much to much attention is being payed to the profitability of the big businesses involved.

 

[Worcester]

Cheapest place for leccy only (don't know about gas ) still isupplyenergy.co.uk consistently 10% less than the big boys for the last 12 months.