Gas Safe Technical - what a load of *&^%

[Masood]

Had a discussion today about classification of a room-sealed flue termination being too close to an entry into the building. Just for clarification, decided to call Gas Safe for a ruling. The response, and I quote "There is no right or wrong answer, it's down to the engineer to decide classification as he sees fit" So what the hell do we study, take exams and re-certify for? We could just make it up as we go along using our common sense and experience because we can apparently never be wrong... :mad2:

 

[Dannypipe]

We've all had the "you're the engineer on site" it's your call response!

 

[Barry98]

It's there get out do jail card every time

 

[Rickster123]

Can we ask gas safe to respond to this on the forum?

 

[leelister6]

You can ask! :mad2:

 

[Barry98]

they wont but anything in writing that implicates they made a decision ill bet my house on it

 

[mfgs]

In all fairness it is quite difficult with some questions without actually being able to see the situation. They should give help with making a decision and saying what aspects to consider etc. Most times when I call Gas Safe they are very helpful, however there is one guy there who I have spoken to three times and every time I have got the hump with him almost instantly as he has a very bad attitude and is not at all helpful. He talks down to you and tries to make you feel like a c*** for even picking up the phone.

 

[Masood]

In all fairness it is quite difficult with some questions without actually being able to see the situation. They should give help with making a decision and saying what aspects to consider etc. Most times when I call Gas Safe they are very helpful, however there is one guy there who I have spoken to three times and every time I have got the hump with him almost instantly as he has a very bad attitude and is not at all helpful. He talks down to you and tries to make you feel like a c*** for even picking up the phone.

I think I've spoken to him as well. Calls you "Sir" but talks really sarcastically to you add if you're asking really obvious questions!

 

[ambrosia]

both times i've rang them i had the same guy,
the only helpful one i've ever had was when i phoned up to renew my registration and give them money

 

[tamz]

The GS tech was spot on with his advice. There is no right or wrong answer. You are the engineer on the job so you go with what you see, by asking the customer and if necessary, by testing.

It could be classed simply as NCS or you may decide to carry out an ambient air test to determine if products of combustion are entering the building where if it failed it would be ID.
If you carried out a test it could be ok today and fail tomorrow depending how the wind blows. You may need to consider recommending as a minimum fitting a CO detector.

The guy on the end of the phone cannot answer these questions for you as he is not there (but he should point you n the general direction) that is why he leaves the decision to you, the engineer. Your job your responsibility.

Who said this job was easy :smile:

 

[lame plumber]

you pay them your money and then you make your own choice

 

[Masood]

The GS tech was spot on with his advice. There is no right or wrong answer. You are the engineer on the job so you go with what you see, by asking the customer and if necessary, by testing.

It could be classed simply as NCS or you may decide to carry out an ambient air test to determine if products of combustion are entering the building where if it failed it would be ID.
If you carried out a test it could be ok today and fail tomorrow depending how the wind blows. You may need to consider recommending as a minimum fitting a CO detector.

The guy on the end of the phone cannot answer these questions for you as he is not there (but he should point you n the general direction) that is why he leaves the decision to you, the engineer. Your job your responsibility.

Who said this job was easy :smile:

I think you're misunderstanding my frustration, Tam. I accept there's no substitute for eyes and ears on the job, and only the person looking at the installation can properly assess it, BUT - and this is my real beef with them - there seems to be no limit to what they want to leave open to interpretation!

The rule I was taught, and is in the books, that a fanned flue shall not terminate less than 300mm from an opening into the building. The reasons are obvious - no POCs must enter the building. Potentially a life and death matter. If THAT can be negotiable, then what else? What if the flue is not properly seated to the boiler? Or a positive-pressure case seal is blowing? According to GSR, as long as the custard is not complaining of smelling fumes, and the ambient CO test is within limits, I can let that slide as NCS. That to me is leaving the door wide open to cowboys with the "It was OK when I inspected it" defence.

Some things should be non-negotiable IMO, and something as fundamental as removing flue gases from the vicinity of the building should, to my mind, fall into that category.

 

[tamz]

I know where you are coming from Mas but they can't give you a definite answer to this question. There are too many variables.
A ff 200 from a door could be posing no risk and would never blow back in or one 400 from the door could be constantly blowing back in.
My own flue comes out about 4m from my door which is at 90º and about 2m out from the corner but due to the prevailing wind direction the poc's blew straight in the door when it was open. Before i swapped it for a steamer it was probably doing the same thing but i couldn't see it. I swapped it for a vertical flue more because it annoyed me than anything else.

I agree some things should be non negotiable.

 

[stevetheplumber]

did you get a ruling on where to measure from mas?

 

[Masood]

did you get a ruling on where to measure from mas?

Nah, I got so wound up by him that it totally slipped my mind. I think you're right though - it's got to be from the closest point..

 

[armourer]

I was taught it was from the edge of the inner flue to the nearest point of the openable door or window (or vent) that products can enter the property (ie the window section not the frame).

 

[AlexGas]

Here it is:

From current BS 5440 Part 1:2008

Flueing and ventilation for gas appliances of rated input not exceeding 70 kW net (1st, 2nd and 3rd family gases). Specification for installation of gas appliances to chimneys and for maintenance of chimneys.