Gas Safety Certificate, Discrepancies, help needed.

[troubledtennant]

This is an edit to perhaps get more people involved.

What is written on my certificate is registered business details 6figures

Name

Then Gas safe registered engineer no 7 figures. Is this what the FAQ calls the licence card number, which has to change every year? Because the top one seems like its the business number so what is technically the second one?

Is licence number different to the registered gas safe engineer number.

From the gas safe faq


15. What is the difference between my Gas Safe registration number and my licence card number?Your Gas Safe registration number is the number your business is registered under. It won’t change as long as you don’t let your registration lapse.
The licence card number is unique to every ID card and therefore every engineer. Your unique licence number changes every year to enable the Register and your customers to identify you securely. This is particularly essential if you are registered for more than one business.
[DLMURL="https://engineers.User PlumbersForums.net Instead - Copy the content, don't link to it.co.uk/FAQ.aspx#faqRegistration"]Back to list of FAQs[/DLMURL]



Cut a long story short i'm a student and been having difficulties with the landlord. Noticed that the Gas saftey certificate was out of date. Requested a new one and the engineers number did not show that a current engineer existed with that number. Now the thing is the certificate has only just been shown to us now not when it was originally completed. So ringing up the gas safe center we asked for a check because whilst the company name existed the engineers number didnt. I was informed that the engineer had a new number and was certified for the period the certificate was issued.

However the name on the certificate does not match with that of the name of the gas safe registered persons number that was used.

Does the certificate have to show the actual name of the engineer who carried out the work?

The name matches with a company name, won't list details but imagine it said engineer name j smith, company name j smith services, yet the registered number does not match the one written on the form.

Also the form itself has not been signed by the landlord, does this constitute a 'complete' or 'valid' certificate.

No idea if anyone will know but any help would be appreciated, i'd hate to think someone was using someone else s numbers for work especially if they weren't trained, could potential damage a reputable person and endanger life.

 

[tamz]

The company registration number remains the same but the operatives number changes every year so J Smith the company may have GS reg no 12345 and J Smith as the engineer has an ID no. like 9876543.

 

[troubledtennant]

Ok, but what about the issue with the name not being the same on the form, we were told about the number change and given the link to the gas safe register say he was m jones, but the name on the form is j smith, which is the same as the company name, does the person carrying out the work have to fill in their correct name? What would occur if they'd signed it for someone else.

 

[tamz]

It very much depends on what brand of paperwork is used, they are all slightly different.
Some just state the trading title and reg number of the company with the name and signature of the operative who carried out the check and others have the name and reg of the company and the name and id number of the operative.
You have checked with GSR and the number is valid for the person. Ring the company named on the sheet, their number is on it. They will tell you if it is valid.

 

[troubledtennant]

Right thanks Tamz for your response i'll contact the company and see what they say. Bit of a weird one because of the certificate having been carried out last july and we're only just seeing it. It's probably nothing but always worth cheking, maybe the engineer just signed the paperwork as if he was the company rather than his name. I don't know how any of it works. Do you know if the landlord has to sign the certificate? Sorry to be a pain your responses are appreciated.

 

[AMGasServices]

Take a picture of the certificate and well see if its real or fake.

 

[tamz]

Someone usually signs it as received either the landlord or his agent.
You should be given a copy within 28 days of the checks being carried out or when you move in.

 

[StillLearnin]

On many occassions, we are told to 'collect keys' from the agent so nobody is at home in which case we write 'Not Present' against the receipiant box .... this was the advise given by our Corgi man .... yeah it was a while ago. I would also have thought the engineer doing the check should always sign as well as the company name.

 

[troubledtennant]

Ok so keep looking at the forms, we have been given by the landlord the up to date one. Now the first certificate is valid from 16/06/11

The second certificate is valid from 27/07/12

So the period between these two dates is over a year, of course that's fine if there was no tenants in the property during that period and as a student house it's reasonable that that was the case.

Now for a possible issue, other than the fact that the name doesn't match with the updated registered engineer on the form (which is a form REGP45) the two engineer numbers are the same, even though the inspections were supposedly done over a year apart. So if the operative number changes every year, how can they be the same?

When HSE was called they stated that the number was valid from19/02/12 to 7/11/12, is it possible that despite these taking place over a year apart that he had the same registered engineer number?

 

[troubledtennant]

 

[AWheating]

The name of the engineer should be on the cert and should match both with both the new and old numbers. If the name on the sheet does not match the name gas safe has against this number then it sounds fishy to me.

i think the number always changes every year?

are the serial numbers on the certs almost the same??

 

[troubledtennant]

The name doesn't match the engineer number that we are told was related to the old code, we were given his new code apparently. IF the number was to change every year there would be no way he could have filled in the first form at the time of inspection as the HSE has said the number was registered from 19/02/12 and the form has the same number but was filled in ib 16/06/11.


Serial numbers for the first certificate are 45 then printed 2745260 second 45 then 2342546, i assume these can be bought buy anyone, there is also at the bottom of the page in the middl ea code, on the first that reads 451101 and the second 451009, no idea what either of these mean or are used for.

 

[troubledtennant]

Also there are no phone numbers left on either certificate is this mandatory? Also whilst i appreciate i sound a bit paranoid here as anyone could move house, would it be normal for someone thats address is in romford to travel to chester for a gas saftey certificate roughly 3 and a half four hours, i didnt think they were that expensive.

 

[tamz]

Sounds like a dodgy cert to me. You will be able to find the businesses number easily enough. If it is fake they will go off their heads and probably take it further. I certainly would.

 

[StillLearnin]

Get in touch with GasSafe, ask them to check the cert as you think it may not be valid

 

[troubledtennant]

The business number is a registered company with gas safe, but does not seem to have any website a search revealed them as listed on goto plumbing but can't seem to find anything else.

Do they keep a record of certificates that have been issued or just company and registered engineers? Thanks as well everyone, i don't know how any of this works it just seems off to me.

 

[aligorgon]

Gas safe wont keep records of certificates, usually there are 3 copies when doing a landlords cert. 1 for the landlord, 1 for tenent and 1 for engineers or company records.

Is there no contact details for the company on the gas safe website?

 

[Mrs Tara Plumbi]

Can't read too much into the number on the stationary as a business may have a few pads and will not necessarily use them in order.

Gas safe would not (easily) be able to tell if the cert is genuine but if you contact them with full details of the two certs and your concerns they will let you know if those engineers could be legit or not.
You can email G S R if that is easier for you
Obviously in MOST cases the "Certificates" are legit
but there are a very small number that are fraudulent - the distance they travelled seems strange from what you have said.

It is possible that the person who turned up and did a check was not really qualified to do so and simply used someone else's no. - hence name no discepency.

Interesting fact: Last year there was a prosecution because frauduent Cert were produced by a landlord - THe HSE were suspicious and after an investigation they discovered the Paper was printed AFTER the date on the Certificate!

I sent you a PM

 

[troubledtennant]

Yes thats my worry, now to fill in some more details that i have discovered. Rang gas safe to inquire about the issues i had seen. Now apparently it is perfectly acceptable for a subcontracted engineer to use the engineer number of the person originally asked to carry out the work. So the distance issue and incorrect numbers now seem to make sense. However the number that is on both certificates which is the engineer who sub contracted the work, we were told was issued on 19/2/12, however the certificate was supposedly written on the 16/6/11. So my question after asking gas safe all this and being told it all sounds legit and i should contact the person who subcontracted if i have any worries is,

how can an engineer number that was issued on the 19/2/11 have been written on a gas safety certificate 8 months before it was issued, unless that certificate wasn't actually written when it was supposed to have been? Also if it is the case that the certificate was written 8 months after its supposed date is, is that certificate valid. Also the issue that it is the same number even though the two certificates are over 1 year 1 month apart is also apparently fine. Now the engineer who supposedly carried out the work was certified at the times both of the certificates were written but appears to either be psychic or have completed a form 8 months after doing a test.

 

[Mrs Tara Plumbi]

The cert would be completed at the time of the inspection.
Obviously if the engineer has put on his operative number but didn't get that number until many months later then there is something wrong.
Gas safe should deal with this - they are the only organisation who can confirm business and operative numbers.
Make sure with GSR first.

+++++++++++++
Then
the HSE tel: Gas safety contacts and information sources
HSE runs a free Gas Safety Advice Line offering information on gas safety that is open between 9.00am and 5 .30 pm Monday to Thursday and 9.00am to 5.00pm on Friday (excluding bank holidays). To contact the Gas Safety Advice Line freephone0800 300 363.
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Double check everything though - even GSR get things wrong.
Once one of our operatives completed the Certificate for a letting agency. But didn't havehis card didn't have his number so just left his number off and wrote in his name.
The letting agency rang GSR to check he was legit and they told the agency that we did have that operative but he was not qualified to work on boilers.
Letting agency phoned and spoke to me.
I knew they person was qualified and GSR were wrong.
I phoned GSR - found out that they had looked at the details of the wrong operative - we had more than 1 on our business registration and they seem t checked the first one they came to.

 

[StillLearnin]

At the end of the day if you feel unsafe in the premises, then personally I would report the situation and move .... better safe than sorry. If a Landlord is looking a bit dubious then presumably it is more than just the safety aspects that will be a problem.....

 

[REDSAW]

pffft, well organised then...back in the 70's