gas sign offs

[hammers4spanner]

cut long story short
been installing gas boilers on site where the flues are being boxed in so flue in void situation
due to how the builder is doing the site the flues have been installed prior to the boiler so boiler is being installed to meet flue so awkward install to say least .

the flues where installed on first fix so have had nothing to do with them albeit have seen them and they are all screwed and bracketed accordingly

the first fix pipework i have not fully seen and alot of flats are being built so concern one

other concern s flues and hatches

the hatches are only 150 mm wide/long surely if a new build was being done the 300 mm should be taken into account?

 

[Ermintrude]

Nice! Envious

 

[BLOD]

So you're signing it off even though someone else did the flue work ?
if youv'e got concerns then I'd get them sorted before signing imoh

 

[AWheating]

It's how new builds work tbh. If your the engineer commissioning you normally have little idea of what's behind floors, walls etc......

yow can only inspect what you can see, the company running the work is responsible for all the work and is require to have in place a way of making sure it's all done correctly and all done by competent persons.

 

[hammers4spanner]

Thats the issue i have fitted the boilers which is fine how ever i cant see any pipe work to it through corridor or rising up behind boarding.

Also i would have thought the boxing would have been big enough to fit appropriate sized hatches

 

[AWheating]

I'm not sure what the recommended sizes are for the boxings.

I would be making notes on any gas Cert's that the first fix was done by another person and you have only been able to check visible parts of the installation.

if the company has any issue with these notes then tell them to get the installer to produce a cert for the pipework installation.

 

[hammers4spanner]

Then wouldnt you ask why is someone is signing of an installation as safe when you cant visibly see that it is

 

[AWheating]

So when you do a landlords cert you lift all the floor boards and check the pipework?

they should have a cert from the gas carcus install anyway?

you could ask the plasterer to sign a cert to say he has dabbed it correctly?



my point being, your not responsible for others and what you can't see.

 

[Ermintrude]

Yes but cp12 is a safety inspection not your name against a install. Sorry to pee on your party but gas safe, HSE and building control will only see one engineers name on the certificate, and that engineer and that engineer alone stands in court. Company has little to nothing to answer for. You are competent person, you are qualified company isn't. Your life away from family in prision. Your conscience. Companies paperwork and audit trail will be in place to ensure that the flack stops at low level. Contracts manager won't even get singed eyebrows from the pit of fire your enjoying.

 

[AWheating]

Your wrong, your signature on a cert does not prove you did the installation. You can not be legally responsible for others actions or law breaking. If you can prove you did your job correctly then your have coverd your arse.

As a company you must have the correct methods in place to do your work to meet the requirements, be that health and safety, gas work, anything really....... If you cant prove this when questioned you will not be able to protect yourself.

If the hse investigates something the person who is always going to take the blame is the man at the top unless he/she can prove they had methods in place that should have avoided the situation. Ive know a few MD's who have gone to jail because they could not prove safe systems of work at the time of a problem.

 

[Ermintrude]

When u get a certificate from GS and when you register a boiler were are the boxes to tick to say you didn't fit flue or pipe work? When the certificate arrives how many engineers names are on it? Safe system of work is inherently different from a "real" audit trail that actually matters

As for man at top be sensible, the big boys have such a plethora of systems all engineered and in place to mitigate responsibility and protect boys at the top. If you check SMS and RA your signing to say your going to do everything properly and report any wrongs.

 

[AWheating]

You as a subby dont register the installation with gas safe, the company your subbying to does in its own name as its there work, they are responsible for the work. Its pretty straight forward in my eyes. If you get asked if you installed the pipework you tell the truth and say no and point them towards the company who did the work. You prove this because you have never invoiced for this work, you have signed a safety cert stating you did not install the pipework etc.....

if you have any idea that something may have been done wrong you put it into writing to the company and if needed the hse. you protect yourself by proving your work was done right and you did not do the other work.

i cant see where your in the cross hairs.

its just not correct even tho most engineers believe it is that because you have signed a cert your responsible for other peoples actions.

 

[Ermintrude]

The company still allocates the job to an engineer. U never seen a gas safe defects report? Always has engineers details on it ? That's my point.

 

[AWheating]

Never had a defect


Not not one that's been found out anyway lol

 

[GrahamM]

For starters have you a clear line of sight to every flue joint no more than 1.5m away? The 300 x 300 is so you can get head up in to view joints.
If you can see EVERY joint using they hatches then that's OK. But putting your name to someone else install is your call.

 

[stevetheplumber]

its all a crock of crap anyway as even with the correct hatches you can never see all the flue as you will be viewing from below or from one side when i inspect i felt tip initials and date to prove ive been there and viewed as much as i can
i failed a flat thas 8 years old the other day as when you opened the hatches there were ceiling struts across the hatch and you couldnt actually see jack

 

[Dotty]

The initial and date thing.... I like that...

 

[Aquazone]

The initial and date thing.... I like that...

I do this or initial a joist in loft if it's a vertical flue through attic, or if OF and checking chimney. Always have a sharpie in my pocket anyway.