Gate Valves

[jaydebruyne]

Stupid question time!!!!

Can gate valves lock? I went to a property today to look at a kitchen tap and there was no means of isolating the water.

Knowing the kitchen sink cold should be on the mains and not being able to find a stop valve anywhere I decided to investigate further incase some kind fellow had plumbed it in via a cistern.

I found a stop valve to the f&e and storage cistern, but turning that off didn't do anything.

So i tried to close the gate valve to the cold feed to the cylinder as I thought I'd take a look at the hot tap and it was fully open. But when I tried to close it, it felt like it was pushing against a locking mechanism..

Not one isolation valve in the property.

So I put in my report that tap needing replacing as it was leaking from the base, no means of isolation, system possibly needed draining in order to replace tap and fit isolation valves.

 

[snowhead]

Stupid question time!!!!

Not stupid, Any valve can lock up open or closed.
Gate valves more than most due to their design.

Rarely used gate valves have a tendency to struggle to close and then shear off closed.

 

[Best]

Gatevalves seem to rot inside or seize inside. The spindle locks up on the packing nut (as does stopcocks). I tend to slacken the packing nuts to ease the turning of the spindle.
Best to carry a few gatevalves with you - 28mm & 22mm & 15mm, so you can swap them. I avoid touching them if they are on hot or cold water. If they are on heating pipes they are less likely to give bother. Lever valves for most work are best.
You probably should have turned the stopcock off on road & bunged the tank for the cylinder feed.

 

[jaydebruyne]

You probably should have turned the stopcock off on road & bunged the tank for the cylinder feed.

Only trouble is, the outside stopcock would have turned off the water to the entire block of flats (4 flats i think) and there was also no access for the tanks.. :/

 

[Best]

Only trouble is, the outside stopcock would have turned off the water to the entire block of flats (4 flats i think) and there was also no access for the tanks.. :/

I would have still turned the mains off to them all & quickly fitted a decent valve on the mains at the sink. A rap on the doors or a note in to say water will be off for 10min wouldn't do folk much grief.

 

[basildog]

Anyone that still fits gate valves needs to retire !
They are crap and normally badly made rubbish stopped using them about 25 years ago more trouble than the saving you make fitting a decent lever valve ?

 

[SimonG]

The only stupid question is the one you dont ask.

I'm off to hang up my spanners and retire.

 

[jaydebruyne]

I would have still turned the mains off to them all & quickly fitted a decent valve on the mains at the sink. A rap on the doors or a note in to say water will be off for 10min wouldn't do folk much grief.

I have no stock in the van. To be honest, at the rate I'm paid at, I'm not using stock I've purchased for my own private work..

 

[efficiencyman]

I have no stock in the van. To be honest, at the rate I'm paid at, I'm not using stock I've purchased for my own private work..

You can often do that in London, not cost effective in rural areas, you would not get repeat work with that approach, if you need to travel 40 miles for a new lever valve. A good plumber will have commonly use parts on their Van just to save miles and do more jobs in a day.

 

[stevetheplumber]

Anyone that still fits gate valves needs to retire !
They are crap and normally badly made rubbish stopped using them about 25 years ago more trouble than the saving you make fitting a decent lever valve ?

25 years ago lever valve were not realy an option its only the use of newer technology that has made them economically viable for everyday use,15mm ballofixes were probably four or five quid each when they first appeared
ok if you were on uptown work where they were specified but for run of the mill housing the gate valve was the economic choice
even now if you buy decent gate valves they will last a lifetime 30 years ago i was removing valves from wormwood scrubs that were over fifty years old and sending them back to halifax be refurbished

 

[Millsy 82]

I think the problem with them is that they are installed and then left for 5/10/15 years until they are needed again then you try to turn them and then they are seized. If they are turned every now and then they should be ok.

 

[basildog]

Very true about the old ones they were well made good quality bits of kit unlike todays rubbish and also so many installers competing on price so you pay monkeys get peanuts !

 

[goz666]

Take the wheel head off, good dollop of lube spray and use a spanner to wiggle, normally works for me....although I NEVER tighten them down too tight. Been there n done that, had to snatch
(22mm) out and one in with a home made bung a few times, nervous moments.

 

[AlexGas]

Can gate valves lock? ... but when I tried to close it, it felt like it was pushing against a locking mechanism..

Gate valevs installed horisontally are prone to clogging up. Is this one installed verticaly or horisontally?

 

[jaydebruyne]

Gate valevs installed horisontally are prone to clogging up. Is this one installed verticaly or horisontally?

It's vertical.

 

[jaydebruyne]

Take the wheel head off, good dollop of lube spray and use a spanner to wiggle, normally works for me....although I NEVER tighten them down too tight. Been there n done that, had to snatch
(22mm) out and one in with a home made bung a few times, nervous moments.

I'll try that next time

 

[EastLondonPlumb]

Failing all isolation try the water meter mate, i bet there is a stop clock somewhere, prob behind a board that is screwed somewhere.

 

[Best]

Unless they are simply just seized at the spindle to packing nut with a bit of corrosion due to slight weep there, gatevalves will seize or break anyhow. The quality of the brass is poor. Old British brass fittings & gatevalves from 50 + years ago are a different breed entirely.
The water where I come from is generally very good, yet gatevalves on hot & cold supplies regularly fail when used. They don't give much trouble on heating, except to pass a bit, or the old washer seal on head to body leaks, as with pump valves. It is often the threaded part of spindle breaking & the valve spindle will just keep turning.
I always scrape the spindle & slacken back the packing nuts on gatevalves & stopcocks first instead of forcing them to turn.