Geberit concealed systems

[Noddy2]

Hello to everyone first post and like many it is as a result of trawling the web trying to find answers to questions.

I have fitted a couple of the Geberit concealed cisterens for wall hung pans in the last year or so. Both have gone on to start and let by with the dribble of water into the pan. One was sorted with a new flush valve washer. The other has got me to the point where i am thinking next time it is time to look for another supplier It would appear these cisterns and valves are well known and a pain in the butt. Anyway, i have had it all apart as you do, everthing cleaned etc, and i am 99% sure the problem is with the seal that sits below the valve basket. Next comes the question, how do you get it out? it rotates both ways forever, i checked from a side access point i have, but no back nut, just a flared end to the flush pipe, i fitted both so long ago i cannot recall how these were connected. The reason i am thinking this is the issue is that it rotates fairly easily and looking in with a torch you can see a build up of limescale in the very bottom around the seal. This and the fact you can still see a dribble in the pan with the guts removed and only with water remaining in around the basket seating. But well below the seat of the flush valve seat

Anyone pulled on of these out before, or can recall how they connect.

Thanks for any help, are there better options on frames for wall hung pans.

Cheers, need a beer now
Andy

 

[justlead1]

Hi Sorry i can not help, i come out in a rash even writing about plastic. But i would fire off the question to the manufacturer. Good Luck

 

[Steve001]

Concealed cisterns, dont you just love em. Yesterday I dropped a diaphragm into one, to get it out took a meter of solder, make up mirror off client, forceps and some cunning finger work.

look at a picture of one, or firing a question to manufacturers as justlead says is a cheaper way than getting your hands on another one to play with, maybe this one here will jog your memory,

Spares online for Geberit. Spare parts for toilets and cisterns

 

[Noddy2]

Cheers guys

Me thinks a call on monday. God knows how the thing comes out, i studied the parts diagram and it gave no clues. Not only that i have not got the smallest arms in the world and i struggle to even touch the top of the basket with everything else removed and my arm bent backwards from one side. Don't you just love em.
Thanks for the replys never the less, just need to find a skinny armed helper now.
Cheers

 

[Puddle]

If you look just above the blue rind there are two peg clips each side if unit
Just press these at the top and unit will pull out

It is not the concealed cisterns that are the problem ,it is the boxing around, people insist on not giving correct access that is required and plainly stated in instructions
you should have front and top access, as we know, but to many people sink a small hole ,if you are luckily ,central to top of the cistern, just enough, to frustrate you by kidding you, it is just big enough ,when in fact, there is no way it is

Seen some lovely bathrooms having to have major repairs after 5 years or so ,when works needed to be done on the concealed cistern or flush pipe, keeps us in work, I just feel guilty and sorry for customer, who was promised by the builder or who ever, if any problem, access would be gained easily, have the same with boilers stuck in newly fitted kitchens, with no way of getting access without removing coving, architraving and other units
People say they do not like these push bottom operated siphons and must agree,this new bread must be wasting a lot of water down thousands on pans across the country ,however I was putting German models in years ago, namely vileroy boss and they lasted years with not leaks and operation all ok, I have have one in my house for twenty years and still working ok ,have to get a new set of bellows last year as worn, which after that time ,is acceptable ,I think

Hopefully the German product will not last very long ,this afternoon !!!!
But as usua,l it did :-(

 

[tackleburger]

You may have a small crack in the syphon body. Been there!!

 

[Noddy2]

Thanks for your suggestions all.

I phoned Geberit this morning and very helpful they were. To remove the valve basket just requires a bit of tug and hey presto it comes unclips, i did ask the question as to how easily it clipped back in and i am glad to say they were telling no lies when they informed me it clipped in very easily, which it did.

With it removed i gave it all a good clean, checked the seating of the valve, put it back in, clipped the rest back in, which only took a couple of minutes at most. And i am pleased to say, dribble gone. Must have been a bit of crud in there somewhere.

I will be checking the syphon body in future also, following the last comment, thanks. I came across alsorts of comments elsewhere on the web, inculding air bubbles in the flush valve seal needing poping with a pin, all of which have seemed to cure the same issues, people have had at some point, not to knock the gear, everyone has problems of some sort at some point. And they are very helpfull in trying to help you sort it out. Unlike Peglar, who i had a right ding dong with over a wall mounted Viso mixer recently. They did not want to know anything about it. Gits, i used to recommend them to people now i put them on to others.

Got it in the end.

 

[SpanishRed]

Rather than create a new post I'll reply to this one as my question is related to this thread.

I too have a Geberit concealed cistern that is also dribbling. Unfortunately I only have acess through the flush plate. The rest is tiled in.

Was this fixed through the plate hole or did it require greater access?

 

[stevetheplumber]

quick tip not necessarily relating to the make mentioned but i first fixed a toilet with concealed cisternand left it in situ on the understanding that the tiler was going to fix it back after he had tiled the floor couple of weeks later i was called back ai was dribling into the pan i changed the flush assembly and it made no difference on closer inspection the tiler had sliped the flush pipe further in to the bottom of the syphon and it was holding the valve open

 

[SpanishRed]

Having asked the question I feel it may help others if I now give my experience of stopping the dreaded dribble.
The problem, as mentioned elsewhere turned out to be air bubbles in the Flush valve seal.

All access is through the flush plate hole. This is approximately 6" x 4" so anyone with gorilla arms, forget it.
After removing the flush plate I was able to turn off the water supply within the cistern and flush it to empty water.
I then removed the inner cover and cradle assembly. I still couldn't get to the flush valve so I then disconnected and removed the side fill valve.

The flush valve could then be unclipped and removed from the basket. However, no matter how I tried I could not get the valve out of the cistern. Maybe it has to be further dismantled within the cistern to make it small enough to get through the flush plate hole.

Anyway, I was able to turn it upside down to gain access to the seal and remove it. Bursting all the tiny water bubbles with a needle and squeezing out the water returned the seal to near new condition. Fitting everything in reverse order and hey presto, problem solved.

I have also ordered a new seal should it start again. Interestingly, they have changed the material having recognised the problem of the air bubbles in the original product.

I hope this helps anyone else who gets the problem and doesn't know where to start. I certainly had visions of having to chisel out the very expensive and relatively new enclosure but all seems well now.

 

[Alfredo]

Hi SpanishRed
I have to replace the flush seal on my concealed Geberit cistern and I have dutifully read all the parts diagrams!
However how do I get the flush plate off? It's the Artline double flush plate and I don't want just to tear it off as the replacement cost is horrific.
Help!
Alfredo

 

[SpanishRed]

Hi Alfredo,

It is spring loaded. Just push up from the bottom and the top will pop off its clips.
Best of luck

 

[Alfredo]

Thanks for that. It is spring loaded but the spring on the Artline is on the left not the bottom as with the others (tricky people these Swiss) so you you push from the left and the right side pops out.
Once the washer arrives I will attempt the extraction of the valve assembly and report back.
Thanks again.

 

[Alfredo]

Hi All
The washer arrived so Geberits service centre seems to work well. Incredibly fiddly but straightforward job; a concert pianist or gynaecologist would have been perfect for the keyhole surgery required. One piece of advice - do use felt tip to mark the length of the plungers before withdrawal as you need to set the length up to avoid continuous flush. I am not at all convinced that the original installation was done by the book in this regard as the spacing between the box face and the tile face was about 35mm.

As predicted elsewhere on this forum the flush washer had blisters but as the replacement (silicone not rubber) costs £1.34 plus £1.50 1st class postage from Geberit Warwick why bother popping the blisters and re using the old washer. For all Geberits flush valves they only have one flush washer - part 816 418. So as soon as you see the continuous flow into the bowl order one.
Now there are 10 other flats in my block with Villeroy & Boch toilets with concealed Geberit cisterns and they are all 5 years old! It could be time for a circular as 1gph leakage equates to about 10 cubic metres per quarter water and waste charge.

 

[pentt]

hello!

i have an alternative solution to this problem. my geberit was leaking on and off for the last 2 years - but only after the cistern had filled. recently it just wouldn't stop running. so i called 2 plumbers - one had no idea how to proceed and ran away, and the other who had experience with concealed systems recommended to rip out the wall to gain access to the cistern at a starting price of £320 (don't do this! the cistern is sealed, and the only access is through the 4x6 opening). unless you have a Geberit specialist on hand, this is job you need to do yourself, IMO.

i had been reluctant to unscrew the front plate and start fiddling around with the mechanisms because i feared an out-of-control flood onto the flat below. don't worry about that. the shutoff valve is a blue knob on the left once you get the plate off. turn it off counter clockwise and then flush the toilet.

the plate on my system had visual instruction on troubleshooting what i suppose is the most common problem - running. i didn't know what it all meant at first, but when i got into the guts of the thing and popped the center bit off, i could see what was going on.

to the right is the post that regulates the water flow, knowing when to shut itself off. over a few years, this mechanism can get gunked up, and needs to be flushed under a faucet. but you need to take it off first to clean it, and that's a bit of a struggle. the instructions show you how. you pop it off the screw device on one end and twist it on the other to remove it. don't drop it! i feared this, but it didn't happen. if it happens, just fill the cistern and it should float to the top.

clean it off really good under a faucet, then reattach it - again, a struggle. make sure the sleeve is aligned properly, or the water won't flow when you turn it on again (happened to me). i did all this and everything seemed fixed, then it started leaking worse than ever!

solved: there is another adjustment mechanism which is that screw bit that the end of the blue cap attaches to. by turning the screw, this can to be adjusted up or down to let the system know when to turn off - sort of like the floating ball in a regular toilet. mine was adjusted too high - at about 10 notches above the plastic base. i dropped that down to 20 notches, and that solved the problem. in fact, adjusting this screw mechanism should be the first thing you do in troubleshooting this type of problem.

i was convinced i had the bubbles in the flush valve seal like others in this thread, but since it was only running after the cistern was filled, the problem had to be with the shutoff mechanism, which it was.

i now know more about this toilet that i EVER imagined i would. it's a stylish thing, but it's a bit of a reinvention of the wheel, and requires some getting-to-know.

 

[NoNolva]

responses very

I am very appreciated

 

[LLearner]

Hi, I think that the problem with my leaking Gerebit cistern is very likely to be similar to those described here.
BUT - I don't actually understand how to remove the 4 x 6 flush buttons/access opening on the top. Even with either button fully pressed, I have little purchase on the plate. When I put a screwdriver under the outside ledge, it feels like the plate is quite firmly fixed, so I'm wary of causing any damage. Can anyone advise?
Regards

 

[stevetheplumber]

the answer to this is mentioned above you push the plates edge side ways or up or down to realease it its sprung loaded so youll feel which way it is as soon as you try

 

[pentt]

solved: there is another adjustment mechanism which is that screw bit that the end of the blue cap attaches to.

in response to my previous post, this WAS NOT the solution. the toilet started leaking again in a few days. if the cistern is overfilling and spilling into the pan, the problem wouldn't be with the float adjustment, it would be with the float valve assembly itself. the float valve assembly is attached to the water inlet pipe, and pops out quite easily once unscrewed from the pipe.

<----the float valve assembly

it is better and easier to remove the whole float valve assembly than trying to pop off the blue cap for cleaning, as the instructions recommend. if you pop off the blue cap for cleaning, you run the risk of dropping it in the cistern and also the rubber valve bit will likely remain in the assembly since it's not secured to anything (you'll see). plus it's nearly impossible if you have big hands.

once you have the float valve assembly removed, twist the blue cap and remove it. there you will see the rubber valve and everything else that needs cleaning. wash everything very well and then put it back in.

if the cistern is still over flowing after this, then you should replace the entire float valve, £22. here is a site that sells them: toiletspares.co.uk/geberit_spares_22.html

 

[Richchad]

I know this is an old thread, but I have the same problem with a very small trickle running into pan, I have replaced the inlet washer and checked water level, no difference.
I have then replaced the valve washer, no difference.
The only bit left is the large black basket washer, however I have just noticed that after turning off water, emptying cistern, removed valve and basket there is still a small trickle of water running into the pan.
Even when I push the basket back in, the trickle doesn't stop or change whatsoever??
How can water be running into the pan with cistern empty, I have checked nothing coming in from inlet.
It is difficult to see into the cistern but can feel a drop of water in there, but surely if I fit basket it should stop trickle?
Any ideas anyone??

 

[Richchad]

Okay so trickle has stopped as cistern is completely empty, trying to fit basket back in and noticed there are a couple of notches in bottom of the basket and am wondering if it only fits in one way, I can't quite reach down far enough to feel or see if any corresponding notches in outlet pipe, have tried twisting basking hoping it would find notches, if there are any but can't quite reach.
Would be nice to know for sure if this is the case.....

 

[itcanbesoeasy]

When designers make plumbing things,they must think that's to simple, how can I make it Impossible !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

 

[rpm]

That warrants an edit.

 

[Dan]

I'm just bumping this thread for no particular reason. If it isn't a current topic, don't worry about it, just ignore it and it'll move off the forum list before long. If it is a topic you'd like to reply to though, go ahead.