Getting into renewables

[AllyBongo]

My business partner and I have been talking about getting into this side of the trade. Im 28 and he is 24, we've been self employed for two years, and most of our work is plumbing and heating installations. But we hear so much about heat pumps, solar etc.

Can anyone recommend any good training courses in Scotland or North England.

Also getting customers for this type of work seems as if it would be quite difficult... Is this usually the case??

Ally

 

[fuzzy]

check ut the C&Gs 2399, thats the way forward, not sure who is doing it yet as its brand new
have you seen the registration to the skills academy thread?

 

[CES]

I sat the BPEC Heat pump course in Telford College in Edinburgh. It was ok for a basic grounding (excuse the pun) in heat pumps. It was for both Ground source and Air source. Ive also attended Mitsubishi Ecodan training in Livingston. I found both courses very interesting. Try your local colleges, they sometimes have renewable awareness courses to give you a basic feel for the technologies.

Fuzzy I dont think the National Skills Academy is active in Scotland unfortunately.. not very national eh? lol

BTW If you are interested then have a look at this:

http://www.renewableenergyinstaller.co.uk/

Just had my copy delivered free, not managed to read much of it so far but its always something handy when Im on the pan!.

 

[unguided1]

Sorry guys but Im at it again, I hate the term getting into renewables at the end of the day we are still doing what we are trained to do and that is to install heating systems, the only difference is that the unit that creates the heat is different why is it all being made out to be some sort of mystic voodoo, I agree that trainning is essential to understand how the unit works that is creating the heat but why is it that we need it to be a whole seperate industry, is our industry not splintered enough

 

[CES]

This is very true and Ive finally "cottened on" to what you are saying Unguided1. Please excuse the slow take up. (Im not very bright but I can lift heavy things!). A heat source is a heat source. It can produce 10% or 350%, doesnt really matter if the heating system is not right. We in the heating industry are probably fools to ourselves. How long have boilers been changed because its the same size as the one that was replaced? When was the last time (honestly) on a heating quote that we have sized the heating output to the property?
Most times we have just "banged a combi on the wall". Old housing stock heating systems have probably been over sized since day dot as the insulation was way out back then. So now when they need a new boiler we just replace what was already fitted as it was "ok before".
Maybe we should actually size a heating system the next time we get the chance to quote, the results may surprise you.
Apologies to the real guys out there who actually do size the boilers to the property (I guess we are in a minority).

 

[unguided1]

This is very true and Ive finally "cottened on" to what you are saying Unguided1. Please excuse the slow take up. (Im not very bright but I can lift heavy things!). A heat source is a heat source. It can produce 10% or 350%, doesnt really matter if the heating system is not right. We in the heating industry are probably fools to ourselves. How long have boilers been changed because its the same size as the one that was replaced? When was the last time (honestly) on a heating quote that we have sized the heating output to the property?
Most times we have just "banged a combi on the wall". Old housing stock heating systems have probably been over sized since day dot as the insulation was way out back then. So now when they need a new boiler we just replace what was already fitted as it was "ok before".
Maybe we should actually size a heating system the next time we get the chance to quote, the results may surprise you.
Apologies to the real guys out there who actually do size the boilers to the property (I guess we are in a minority).

Aha the penny drops although to be fair I dont think its just the fact that you can lift heavy weights more a case that as I am unable to get my point across with out beating it in to even the brightest loveslave means that by using words through the forum I am difficult to understand.

 

[dontknowitall]

Maybe I'm odd but before I change a boiler I do check the size of the building/heating requirements and, possibly more importantly, ask them whether the existing one has been producing enough heat.

I do feel that us old fashioned plumbers, who have learned how heat works in a house and, therefore, will understand how a new heat source could work better (or not as the case may be), are being side-lined with this MCS registration stuff.

I feel from reading the comments here and elsewhere, and looking at the marketing these renewable companies are conducting, that these new companies are out to make a profit at the customers' expense and not understanding the basic principles of heat, heat loss, pipe sizing, safety features, etc, etc.

Long breathe needed for this next paragraph! ...

They're great office staff who can sit for hours working at spreadsheets, PowerPoint presentations, databases, letters, not answering the phone for after sales service but answering for sales enquiries, excellent Facebook pages and mobile phone texting, etc but as for the nitty gritty of planning a proper heating system for a reasonable price, working out how to install the pipework in a sensible and unobtrusive way, calculating the actual heat requirements (instead of taking a flying guess with a one size fits all spreadsheet), etc, etc, ... it ain't good for your local 1-2 person plumbing business.

 

[Mrs Tara Plumbi]

Ditto to unguides, dontknowitall and ces.
To the original question.
Definitatly heating is going to change over the century but the question is about what is best for small local businesses which we all are.
The work at the moment is all gas central heating systems.
And lots of people seem to do this new training but not be getting any related work. I'm sure it will be there in the long run but 10 20 years? when we need to pay bills now!.

That we do heating is an important point - not especially gas boilers.
The knowledge is applicable to any heating AND a lot of the practical skills are the same.

EG we advertise that we do electric heating as well. My hubby does not have an electric qualification but we work with an electrician week in week out. We have also worked with a qualified refridgerant guy to install heat air to air pumps. It is NOT rocket science if you are already have the knowledge & skills of a gas heating engineer so I don't know why it is being made to seem so complicated.

 

[fuzzy]

i think there is more to it than people may think. like everything else, gas boilers are easy to fit its not rocket science, or is it?

It may not be too difficult for a qualified experienced trades person to upskill or widen their knowledge to fit renewables but we should acknowledge prior skills and new skills. everthing is easy to do but not everything is easy to do right. lets not allow ignorance to gain an upper hand, its a new skills and we shoudl acknowledge this

 

[Mrs Tara Plumbi]

I didn't mean gas boilers are easy to fit - gosh it is easy to be read wrong. I expect they are very difficult, I had a go at reading a manual once!
No i mean Heat Pumps are easy to fit IF you are already a gas heating engineeer - so I meant quite a different thing. Sorry

Agree with your general point about training for new skills though, I think?!

 

[dontknowitall]

i think there is more to it than people may think. like everything else, gas boilers are easy to fit its not rocket science, or is it?

First I do agree with your post!

The point I was making is probably best described in a hypothetical case. Suppose Mr. Brand Spanking New Solar Company Ltd visits Mrs Jones who is thinking about renewables. She has a standard boiler and heating setup in her house.

During the course of the 2-3 hour consultation and essay writing competition entry (ie sales pitch) she is sold on the idea of spending £14,000 on a solar heating system. ("Mrs Jones, you have to remember that the cost of the administration has to be covered and the QMS registration process and so on. Also you need to remember that without my qualifications you won't be able to claim from the government under the RHI" ... (Mrs Jones: "What's the RHI again?") ... "Oh that's the blah, blah, blah.

Are there any further questions?"

"Yes, actually, there is. My sitting room doesn't warm up enough. Also the bathroom is too warm sometimes. The heating also comes on in the summer. Are you able to fix these?"

"I'll get my contractors to take a look."

"How much will it be?"

"I'm not too sure."

"Can you tell me the approximate cost as I need to budget for that as well?"

"Oh, I shouldn't think it will cost more than £2,000".

Mrs Jones "What will that cover?"

In other words, Mr. Brand Spanking New Solar Company Ltd has no idea either of the possible problem or the cost to solve it.




It's not rocket science but I do wonder how many of the salesmen of these new companies who have the QMS, REAL, RHI, BSHons, Piano II Merit (passed at 10 years old no less) have any idea on how the basics of heating a house.

 

[fuzzy]

I think the issue you raise is more a problem of sales people for an 'everest' type companies. Never done solar but want to sell it.

 

[SimonG]

I didn't mean gas boilers are easy to fit - gosh it is easy to be read wrong. I expect they are very difficult, I had a go at reading a manual once!
No i mean Heat Pumps are easy to fit IF you are already a gas heating engineeer - so I meant quite a different thing. Sorry

Agree with your general point about training for new skills though, I think?!

I better pack in now then, seeing as I don't do gas.

 

[unguided1]

i think there is more to it than people may think. like everything else, gas boilers are easy to fit its not rocket science, or is it?

It may not be too difficult for a qualified experienced trades person to upskill or widen their knowledge to fit renewables but we should acknowledge prior skills and new skills. everthing is easy to do but not everything is easy to do right. lets not allow ignorance to gain an upper hand, its a new skills and we shoudl acknowledge this

and this is the problem with half hearted trainning courses that give qualifications and no experiance the government is always looking for a quick fix and then goes and raises the bar with expensive schemes like this then wonder why all of it is failling

 

[fuzzy]

i think they are trying to put it right though unguided, the 2399 should if run properly sort this out and do away with the short courses that are half hearted

 

[unguided1]

Put It right, more like cock it up, unemployment up to its highest level in years the latest school leavers with no chance of a job full of attitude that the world owes them and unable to read and write,with succsesive governments constantly promising change to make things better whilst constantly paying billions for a substandard victorian education system but without the corporal punishment. As I see it this country needs to stop giving money to the rest of the world and start investing in its own countries youth and businesses instead of taxing the living breath out of us

 

[Rosie @ CAT]

Hi all,

As you are probably already aware renewables is a new, booming industry with the Green Deal, RHI and FiT all coming through this year.

Here at CAT we provide professional training for plumbers interested in topping up their skills to meet the new demand for renewable technologies.

We have a Solar Thermal BPEC course running from sunday 31st July until wednesday 4th August at a discounted rate of £510 including full board accomodation (normal price is £600).

If you are interested in the course take a look at our website here:
CAT Short Courses

We're always happy to chat about this course and others just drop us an email [email protected]

OK, hope this helps.

Rosie

 

[markfxy]

For vegetarians only!

 

[Rosie @ CAT]

CAT welcomes people from all backgrounds and diets. We are a respected organisation for providing top quality training for professionals and being at the cutting edge of renewable technology for 35 years. Our students come from all backgrounds and go on to successful employment in all areas of the renewable energy industry. Our reputation is that of quality, expertise and diversity.

 

[markfxy]

Great as the cost of food is included in the course costs can i expect a nice juicy steak when i do your solar PV course

 

[Henchman76]

The cost of an average installation still exceeds its NG fueled opposition regardless of its overall greener impact on the enviroment. Desposable income is at a premium at the moment and that percentage is set to become increasingly slender, I would be extremely suprised if the renewables market does not slow down to some degree in the next 5 years.