Got laughed at yesterday.....

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For using a bending spring.Don't discount them if you don't use them,lovely rolling off sets and very neat n tidy.Who still uses them?I do,for one but always use benders for anything tight such as pipe width crossovers.Thoughts?
 
jpm said:
For using a bending spring.Don't discount them if you don't use them,lovely rolling off sets and very neat n tidy.Who still uses them?I do,for one but always use benders for anything tight such as pipe width crossovers.Thoughts?
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springs have their uses ignore the clown that laughed at you they know nothing about plumbing😀
 
Too right , espcially for finding existing floorboard hole when doing valve and pipework sections, awesome tool.
 
I still use for off-sets,like when doing boiler changes and just need to bring pipes over slightly
Do not like to go past a certain point though as may springs seem to allow crease
Do not us benders very much now as fittings so cheap,whereas in the old days had to use bender as fittings cost could take a big bite out of profits
Always remember when I first started working in London in the eighties,I had to do a cylinder replacement with a local lad,so job could be done quick,he used soldered fittings one side ,I used bender on other side,nothing to do with me doing bender side,but it did look so much better,now I would be the one using fittings 🙁
But as said for quick off sets a lot quicker using spring than getting bender out and can use in tighter places
Maybe he was not laughing at you using a spring but more the way you used a certain part of your body to bend the pipe around ,to get that tight bend 😛😀
 
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Did you aneal (sp) the copper first?
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PLEASE PLEASE never, never do this. It reorganises the crystal matrix in the copper and can lead to rapid cold water pitting!!

Yes I use the bending spring a lot. The 28mm one can be a bit tricky and I find the easiest way to do this is to place the end of the copper into a hole exactly the right size on the chassis of my van (Land Rover Defender LWB) for leverage (an old plumber told me this trick)!
 
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i used to have to aneal a lot, couldnt afford 28,35 n 42 mm bender, as for changing makeup, i was taught it was okay at college, so that suits me, and i dont remember being called back to dodgy bend leaks!
 
It can take quite a few years but it will corrode more quickly than unadulterated pipe (except in heating circuits with inhibitor).
 
WHPES said:
PLEASE PLEASE never, never do this. It reorganises the crystal matrix in the copper and can lead to rapid cold water pitting!!

Yes I use the bending spring a lot. The 28mm one can be a bit tricky and I find the easiest way to do this is to place the end of the copper into a hole exactly the right size on the chassis of my van (Land Rover Defender LWB) for leverage (an old plumber told me this trick)!
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Can you quote where you found this information,

I was taught sand loaded fire bending of large bore copper tube, which meant that the copper tube was subject to the annealing process

What you are implying is that copper tube should not be brazed or hard soldered because this will bring the copper tube up to the annealing point of copper

How is coppersmithing of ships boilers and steam locomotives, even copper water services carried out if not by brazing, silver soldering, so annealing the copper tube in the process

Copper work hardens, the more you work it the harder it gets, and tends to fracture, if worked too much without it being annealed to restore its temper

Taking you statement to its logical conclusion, if you install dead soft temper copper tube it will water pit, because it has been annealed in the works

Continental copper tube is normally sold in 5 metre lengths (called bars), this is dead hard temper, and cannot be bent without annealing, and I have yet to see a single piece of annealed copper tube suffering from water pitting caused by annealing

The only thing I am aware of, concerning pinhole pitting of copper tube, dates back to the late '60's where the oil used to help draw the copper tube formed a carbon layer in side the tube, this at times caused carbon pin hole pitting of the copper tube

Can I also refer you to the Wikipedia page concerning pitting of copper tube
Cold water pitting of copper tube - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
 
Plouasne said:
Can you quote where you found this information,

I was taught sand loaded fire bending of large bore copper tube, which meant that the copper tube was subject to the annealing process

What you are implying is that copper tube should not be brazed or hard soldered because this will bring the copper tube up to the annealing point of copper

How is coppersmithing of ships boilers and steam locomotives, even copper water services carried out if not by brazing, silver soldering, so annealing the copper tube in the process

Copper work hardens, the more you work it the harder it gets, and tends to fracture, if worked too much without it being annealed to restore its temper

Taking you statement to its logical conclusion, if you install dead soft temper copper tube it will water pit, because it has been annealed in the works

Continental copper tube is normally sold in 5 metre lengths (called bars), this is dead hard temper, and cannot be bent without annealing, and I have yet to see a single piece of annealed copper tube suffering from water pitting caused by annealing

The only thing I am aware of, concerning pinhole pitting of copper tube, dates back to the late '60's where the oil used to help draw the copper tube formed a carbon layer in side the tube, this at times caused carbon pin hole pitting of the copper tube

Can I also refer you to the Wikipedia page concerning pitting of copper tube
Cold water pitting of copper tube - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
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yes please do as i have never encountered this
 
It was what I was taught at college. I distinctly remember the lecturer stating it shouldn't be done, and making a note of it. However I have always taken it as gospel without much thought. Perhaps it was meant for steel pipe rather than copper but it was so long ago it was imprinted into my memory!
 
could be plastic waste pipe that you remember! flames shoudnt touch that, but a heat gun is ok.
 
used to be quite common for us back in the 70's sand loading 4" copper tube for pan run outs in commercial installations,never had any problems with it,probably al still there to my knowledge,springs are always handy to have in your kit.
 
the only thing i ever used a 22mm spring for was clearing choked RWP offsets😀
 
I use a bending spring on alu pex underfloor heating pipe to get 100mm centres without kinking it on a regular basis.
 
we used to sand bend were i served my time till someone put damp sand in !
 
Showing my age but, a 3/4" lead pipe spring was ever so slightly smaller in diameter then a 22mm copper spring.
A few times I used the wrong one and kinked the copper, knackering the spring inside.

I guess laughing by an onlooker would be allowed at that. 🙄
 
The thing about a bending spring is that it allows you to bend the copper to the radius of your choice (within reason). Whereas a pipe bender limits you every time to the standard fixed radius of the former. Of course this does mean that you can overdo it and split the pipe if you're being daft!

Another big difference is that a spring lets you position adjacent bends much closer together than a pipe bender does. This is partly because of the variable radius and partly because you do not have to get one end of the pipe under a pipe stop.

In tight spots these two advantages can make all the difference between producing a successful bend or not.

To help get the required leverage when using springs, I keep pairs of hardwood (ramin) battens - about 2ft. long with a hole near the end. The holes are slightly bigger than the pipe diameter and are well chamfered. I thread the pipe through the holes and position the battens with one each side of the point to be bent. This gives me loads of leverage, even with short pipe lengths - and it spares my knees!

Personally, I have not yet encountered any corrosion problems with annealing copper pipe before bending it. But what do I know?
 
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