Gravity mixer shower airlocking

[smudger]

Hi Folks

A friend of mine recently had new bathroom fitted. They have a gravity fed mixer shower but it keeps airlocking and losing all power. The guy that installed it couldn't work it out (not a plumber - general bodg..I mean builder!) so said shower must be faulty. They got MIRA guy in who said problem is with pipework. I'm going round on Saturday to try and sort it, but not hugely experienced with these. The guy has used copper throughout, the cylinder is on same level, pipework runs up and over. I have attached some photos. My first thoughts are that I could put in air release valve at high point. I haven't seen pipework in loft so don't know if it goes up over joists or if level etc. I would appreciate any thoughts from you guys as you tend to know what you're talking about. Cheers

 

[Simon F]

it goes up and then back down to shower? air lock

cylinder looks set for heat loss, one pipe circulation, vent should rise up from corner
and pipes need insulating

 

[Hardy1]

well course its gona airlock look at it lol, what you want to do is elbow straight out the top of the cylinder and take it to the corner or wherever and equal tee it from there straight up over the cold water storage cistern, that was definetely installed by a builder not a plumber lol, hope it helped, if not come back and ll let you know what else to do and just like simon F^^ says above, lag it all mate.

 

[smudger]

I haven't actually seen it yet, got sent the pics today. Can't say too much as the guy is a good mate of theirs. Will def insulate and do what you suggest. Thanks.

 

[tackleberry]

arite smudger if it was me i would of fitted a surrey flange at cylinder google it,it will defo help hot water.is it poss to re route pipes instead of up and over??

 

[smudger]

Would you use surey flange rather than essex. Happy fitting Surrey flange but only ever been shown how to fit essex flange, nevr done one myself. As for rerouting, I think that's out as I'd probably have to remove tiles in shower.

 

[tackleberry]

surrey flange are mostly used with shower pumps to be fair but far easier to in stall than an essex flange, with the essex flange you get a bigger diameter outlet right enough.is there a secondry return cap on cylinder on the side near the top?

 

[smudger]

Sorry Folks. Still struugling to get my head round this. As the pipework goes up and over any air in the pipes will cause an airlock, right. So I need to either stop any ingress or find a way to release it. Fitting a flange etc will not prevent air getting in will it? Would fitting the T so that its pointing down to start with force air up the open vent pipe. Alternatively, is there an air release valve that could be installed at the high point of the run? Sorry to sound a bit dim, but I'm only a lowly L2!!

 

[smudger]

Only seen the photos tackle so can't answer that. If I thought it would solve the problem I'd say fit a pump, but if it airlocks now, it would probably still lock witha pump (?)

 

[tackleberry]

is the cold water tank in attic resting on joists?or is it built up on a stool,if its on a stool u could tee off the vent pipe as close to bottom of cold water tank as poss then in copper have a steady run bk down towards pipe coming up through ceiling from shower this would not collect air.

 

[Best]

An Essex flange is best avoided as they leak when the heat hardens the washers, - I never use them, except to replace leaking ones that someone has fitted.
Most of air is from top of cylinder - that is why you are better using a Surrey or Warix flange, as easy to fit, air free connection.

 

[Mike Jackson]

A lot of shower manufacturers are recommending Warix over Surrey now.

 

[smudger]

Thanks Best. Do you think, given the shoddy job as it is, and it going up'n'over, that a warix would keep air out. If it would I think that would be the easiest solution.

 

[smudger]

Hi again. I think the way to go would be to fit warix/surrey flange. But I have another query. It looks in the photo that the hw feed for the shower has been taken some way along the main hw feed. Would you guys recommend seperating the two feeds so the main hw feed and open vent come out the top of the flange and the shower feed alone comes out the feed from the dip tube?

 

[Best]

Thanks Best. Do you think, given the shoddy job as it is, and it going up'n'over, that a warix would keep air out. If it would I think that would be the easiest solution.

I would guess that a Warix or Surrey flange would work. I have just done this on similar job. The Warix has the hot connection for vent & rest of house, from the side of flange (same as if you used a male bend) & the air free to shower from the top. The Surrey is the opposite, air free from side & hot to vent & rest from top.

 

[smudger]

Thanks for all the excllent advice. Pretty clear in my mind now, lets just hope there are no surprises when I get there on Saturday! I'll post some photos of the job when I've done it. Thanks again to everyone who took the trouble to respond.

 

[Best]

Read instructions for hot pipes to & from shower pumps, - I know that is not a pumped shower, but some of the same things apply.

 

[smudger]

Will do Best. Thanks for the help.

 

[Plumbsy]

Things to consider with gravity air locks. When the hot supply goes back up and over it is running back to the same level as the CWSC. If the shower head is mounted high aswell then there will not be enough head of water to overcome any air locks. I am sure there is a minimun distance of 1 metre from the bottom of the CWSC to the shower head. I had this once and when I lowered the shower down the air lock cleared. Just a bit of useless info that may help decide what to do when you have look at it!

 

[GerrythePlumber]

NO NO NO NO Tacklberry.

Not a Plumbing solution