Heating system options

[galaxy_plumbing]

Hi guys,

need your advice. Customer using electric heaters to heat flat. There is gas in the shop downstairs with combi installed. Shop owner renting flat upstairs and wish to reduce electricity bills so asked me if its possible to install combi in the flat upstairs. All walls plasterboard, same in the kitchen, pitched roof all around, only suitable space its in the loft. Already got headache from thinking how to run new gas line in the loft if customer would decided to go ahead.

I really need some advice if there is something which could be used in this situation. I know electric heating elements for towel rails, but no idea how economical they are, if there is something for for normal single/double wall rads.

Heaters they have now are not working efficiently and they can't heat all rooms properly.

Many thanks for your info. I can post pic of the house just to see my situation.

cheers

 

[galaxy_plumbing]

Other thing I was thinking, to replace boiler downstairs and zone downstairs and upstairs but that would probably wouldn't work correctly, in case the boiler would need reset etc and shop was closed.

 

[Destroyer2813]

How does the shop owner decide how much to charge the flat for electricity? how does he propose doing the same in gas. One problem i see is if the shop/flat are sold seperatly they would then need a independent gas supply which wouldnt be cheap to put in

 

[galaxy_plumbing]

show owner is letting flat upstair, bills are included in the rent, so they want to lower bills for herself. tenant will pay same probably. there would have to be AECV in the flat upstairs and maybe secondary meter if they would decide to start charging extra for gas. my worry is design of the roof, see pic.

 

[Destroyer2813]

Can you not use a vertical flue and a pitched slate or are you thinking of coming out the gable end in the loft. Is that place near the Tesco"s on the Jersey farm estate ?

 

[SafeGasInstall]

you can use horizontal flue with a pitched slate if this makes it easy

 

[galaxy_plumbing]

yep Jersey farm..Main worry is condense and pressure relief pipe, dont have much experience in this case

 

[Destroyer2813]

you can use horizontal flue with a pitched slate if this makes it easy

Think that looks pony myself

 

[Destroyer2813]

Wheres th bathroom in relation to the kitchen/loft can you get the condense into the stack

 

[galaxy_plumbing]

bathroom is other side of the flat, but on same side of the flat, see the other window on other side of the roof, however that doesn't sound that bad. Going back there some time next week as didn't have a chance to go into loft, so will do some more thinking once I'm there. I like this challenge.

 

[SafeGasInstall]

get the new viessmenn boiler wich have a combine outlet for prv and condense and then worry only for 1 plastic condense pipe

 

[Howsie]

Heat resistant plastic I assume?

 

[peteheat]

How about making a box for the boiler and mounting it on the lower outside wall?

I don't do much gas but if it can work for oil why not gas?

Another option might be as you suggested to use one boiler zoned with a flow meter for the flat, that way the landlord can charge for the heat used.

 

[jtsplumbing]

If yuo are thinking about the loft , remember about building regs ! fixd light / boarded out / fixd ladder / etc

 

[galaxy_plumbing]

yes, that would have to be done. thanks guys for your comments.

 

[Nostrum]

Also make sure your not over the 6m2 for a U6 meter. 2 smallish combis should just about be ok, but a cooker may knock you over.

 

[Nostrum]

Sorry 6m3 (cubic metres) no edit button so I look like a wally

 

[galaxy_plumbing]

yes, i'm aware of this, however only gas appliance is combi downstairs .

 

[Nostrum]

Most 28kw+ combis required over 3m3 per hour so 2 would theoretically see you over, although I am told that the can actually pass nearer 7m3 but i'm not 100% sure on this. Just worth mentioning as a meter upgrade after you've installed wouldn't go down to well I shouldn't think!

 

[galaxy_plumbing]

new line is possible , but that's gonna cost I think - so would rather consider using what is there.

 

[Nostrum]

Not saying a new line mate, it's the meters through rate which is potentially governing you. If you opt for a 28-30kw combi for hot water then you may find the 2 combined max outputs on hot water exceed the meter through rate. In reality it's not going to be an issue I doubt as you would have to have both combis running hot water long enough for a problem to occur, if it did at all (as above I have heard they are capable of more than there badged flow rate) but it only takes a jobsworth to pick up the fact and you may find yourself being asked to pay for a meter upgrade.

Worth a thought, the ideal situation is that they pay for a new supply to the flat with its own meter if the 2 combined exceed 6m3, maybe mentioning the meter's limitations may sway them to do it, if not I would make sure you cover yourself with some kind of disclaimer.

Talking from experience

 

[galaxy_plumbing]

After some thinking, I think there are only 2 options left. Fit new energy efficient electric heaters, or install bigger combi boiler and zone upstairs and downstairs. Like the idea of 2 zones rather than new electric. Due to the nature of the building, with solid concrete floors, best way to run flow/return pipes would be in the loft, so probably an extra pump will be required too, was thinking of programmable thermostats downstairs and upstairs, each controlling 2 port valve. However, I will forward my questions to Honeywell and couple more controls manufacturers and will see their recommendations.