HELP -Can not locate inspection Cover? Blockage

[bilabonic]

Hi All

I own 2 flats and the upstairs/first floor tenant has contacted me to say that the toilet and basin are slow at draining and she thinks there is a blockage.
She stated she has tried various shop boought unblockers but nothing worked....
I went there and gained access to downstairs to look for a manhole/inspection but could not find one? My property has a ground floor extension all the way to the back wall either side property do not.
The properties either side have their manhole covers just inside their rear gates, mine is not there? I also lifted patio slabs and forced a pole down around the garden but to no avail.
The downpipes on all properties either side are in same location as mine and if using their layout mine should be in the same place on my path to my rear gate that is right next to the extension

I have looked at my paperwork and it had title deeds, just red outline for the property, plus there ar basic layout plans that show each room, living room/bathroom /kitchen bedroom/stairs/doorways/lobby.

I am at a loss now on how to proceed as i need to get to this inspection cover (if it has one but surely building regs would require this).

I have ordered some 'One Shot' Sulphuric Acid cleaner and a large monument accordion type plunger that pushes water not air to try in the toilet....

I have not been given access to the upstairs flat yet so don't know how bad it is, also the tenant did not mention the sink and from memory the furthest away is toilet, then out wall and bend and a straight that has basin and then sink, I'm not 100% on this as i was so flustered lifting next doors manholes/lifting slabs and looking in my extension for some type of cover.

I did manage to check the downstairs flat and everything is fine.

So i'm thinking i have 2 feeds into the 'lost' manhole, both properties either side do, one main house (which woould be my upstairs blocked flat), one for an outside toilet (that i presume is being used for the downstairs flat).

How do i proceed here in locating it as it need to be found even if i mange to unblock it with my big bad boy balck plunger and one shot.

Could it be inside the extension that's tiled and laminate? Would it back up from the 'lost' inspection cover all the way to upstairs toilet (15-20m of pipe) and not show/bubble over??

Any ideas

Cheers

 

[Deleted member 120897]

It might just be how it is depending on the age of the property. I would try and access neighbouring properties manholes - for 2 reasons:

1. Theirs could be blocked
2. The blockage could be rodded and cleared from one of them even if theirs aren’t blocked.

Also you might have success with the Monument or a rod with a rubber disc.

 

[bilabonic]

It might just be how it is depending on the age of the property. I would try and access neighbouring properties manholes - for 2 reasons:

1. Theirs could be blocked
2. The blockage could be rodded and cleared from one of them even if theirs aren’t blocked.

Also you might have success with the Monument or a rod with a rubber disc.

I lifted both neighbours manholes and they are fine and run away from the house at approx 80 degrees.
Its just a main 'through' run with an adjacent outside toilet into each one.
Hence my thinking above as to how mine might have been ustilised.
So either side is fine and it looks like they run through into the lane/main sewer.

 

[Deleted member 120897]

Yours might tap in blind, in which case rodding wouldn’t work anyway. Plunging or jetting might be only option.

 

[bilabonic]

I was expecting to jet tbh, always have had someone in with a snake that self propels itself.

I was contemplating drilling a hole in the downpipe part and fitting a 40 or even better 50mm strap boss/rubber adapter seal/access plug?
I'm sure i read a 50mm boss strap with rubber you can just push in a solvent access plug like this?

https://www.NoLinkingToThis/p/floplast-solvent-weld-access-plug-white-50mm/72586

I also seen this that i think is a great idea but expensive!

pipe inspection point kit

Video -https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IOOkHpSAOOI
-https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gcaR5k0AY_w

Or another option is a proper 110mm access point cover but involves lot more work and do NOT want to do tbh.

https://www.NoLinkingToThis/p/flopl...rc=aw.ds#product_additional_details_container

 

[snowhead]

You don't need any fancy bungs or fittings.

Get a piece of 100mm soil pipe 100 to 150mm long.
Make 2 cuts about 40mm apart down it's length so it looks "C" shaped and 100 to 150mm long.
Drill a 50mm hole in the (Blocked?) pipe, then when the blockage is clear run a bead of silicon (or solvent for a permanent job) around the hole and spread the cut pipe out and clip it over the hole.
Secure with either a large jubilee clip or soft wire twisted to hold it till the silicon or solvent dries.

Avoid using any cleaners with acid in, otherwise you'll need gauntlets and a face visor if you open up the pipe later.

 

[bilabonic]

You don't need any fancy bungs or fittings.

Get a piece of 100mm soil pipe 100 to 150mm long.
Make 2 cuts about 40mm apart down it's length so it looks "C" shaped and 100 to 150mm long.
Drill a 50mm hole in the (Blocked?) pipe, then when the blockage is clear run a bead of silicon (or solvent for a permanent job) around the hole and spread the cut pipe out and clip it over the hole.
Secure with either a large jubilee clip or soft wire twisted to hold it till the silicon or solvent dries.

Avoid using any cleaners with acid in, otherwise you'll need gauntlets and a face visor if you open up the pipe later.t

That's a genius idea!
I know exactly what you mean.
Its finding some 110mm pipe is the problem, but i could put a message out to some builders and no doubt they will have an offcut.
I would use silicone so it would be easily removable if necessary.
Ive seen this 'repair' on tick Tock or similar ..lol

 

[bilabonic]

Anybody seem these type of glue on boss adapters, brilliant idea imo.

So if i uses one of these my 40mm (stamped 43mm would slot in), then what inspecion plus would i require that unscrews.

I presume it would be length of pipe/couper then glue this into coupler?

https://www.NoLinkingToThis/p/floplast-solvent-weld-access-plug-white-50mm/72586

TBH i would rather do as above or fit a 50mm boss that come with rubber bungs and i'm sure you can then just push in an access plug directly into the runner bung/seal/grommet.

Can someone confirm this please as bigger the hole better for the jetter/snake/rod.

So this -https://www.NoLinkingToThis/p/floplast-strap-boss-grey-110mm/93635 (requires 54mm hole cut in pipe) and just push in push fit access plug.

I could then pull out the access plug and grommet and the 54mm hole will be plenty big enough to get a snake jet/rods down.

Then yet another option is a 50mm boss adapter, but how would i fit an inspection point into this that is removable?
Plus i'm not sure what size bit would need to drill into the soil for a 50mm boss adapter, presume it would be around 64mm???

Black White Grey Strap On Boss Soil Pipe 110mm 32mm,40mm,50mm Rubber Available | eBay

Used to connect waste pipes to 110mm soil pipe. 32mm, 40mm, 50mm rubber boss inserts available. 40mm Compression Tee with Washing Machine/Dishwasher Outlet Spigot Nozzle PVC. Copper Pipe/Tube 4,5,6,8,10mm,15mm,22mm,28mm,35mm,42mm,54mm,67mm Various Lengths.

www.ebay.co.uk

But what pug do o need for this that i can just push in as i have no 50mm pipe and purchasing a single length for 4 " of it is madness.
50mm boss -https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/112620481738?hash=item1a38b42cca:g:8r0AAOSwBJxdIxFV&amdata=enc%3AAQAHAAAAoL2euRCuyBUvfmBTI8fced3OF3FMEA%2BLBij4a3geiabzJOiIm8O2dKA7Ge6qeTH9CiV6y%2FbhSQwHpwNc0xwNVjQZtpsW4MPHnRQeEbz99rKCYTEA3fqJdpl%2BX4NaaWAEgYLtxSwKlpSFQSnbSyK0lxGsrjRQGvz6B2IRegJoDxpRAi2uw5eombwu6Ko7vVoM%2B41oIoakqlW9FEPQmwjbb9Q%3D%7Ctkp%3ABk9SR9Cs8LSLYQ

50mm access plus, can i just push this in? -

https://www.NoLinkingToThis/p/floplast-solvent-weld-access-plug-white-50mm/72586

I KNOW i have come across these type of bosses with the inspection point just pushed into them, no pipe, ive seen it on a property somewhere in the past.

Cheers

 

[snowhead]

That's a genius idea!
Ive seen this 'repair' on tick Tock or similar ..lol

I first used this idea 40 years ago on cast iron, then later years on 50mm solvent in commercial kitchens, if only Tictok was around then I could have retired on the income 🤣 🤣

 

[bilabonic]

I first used this idea 40 years ago on cast iron, then later years on 50mm solvent in commercial kitchens, if only Tictok was around then I could have retired on the income 🤣 🤣

It's brill, ill drill a 54mm hole anyway as i know this takes a 40mm boss strap.
Get on Tick Tock pal, you will be famous!!! 😂😂

 

[bilabonic]

Well rang my Council Building control as Planning Dep it's nothing to do with them.

They states they have no idea and can not even check and and stated get a company in to do a survey/camera's etc and hung up on me!

How can they do a 'survey' when next doors either side are not linked all flow away from houses/not parallel, pus there is no access point other than drilling into the soil downpipe and that has two 45 deg just as it enters a raised slab of concrete.

This is an absolute nightmare, can anyone PLEASE advise on my next step, i've spoke to a guy who unblocks drains and he stated if there is no planning and the manhole is inside the extension they have rights to take the whole extension down!!!

Or are there companies who can map it out somehow just by drilling the into the downpipe and somehow make a plan with some sort of radar device that locates it route??

I'm at my whit's end here.....

 

[PETE 123]

They should be able to put a camera down the hole in pipe when i worked for dyno rod 45 yrs ago they had rods with a transmitter on and use a metal detector type device at ground floor level drain tracing they called it to map out drain runs.

 

[bilabonic]

UPDATE -


Anyway i have found the manhole after speaking to guy who laid the floor several years ago, he vaguely remembered seeing an outline of an inspection cover.

Do i just contact Welsh Water now? They only charge £86+VAT, or do i go private at £150-£250 as i could not find any plans and it's inside .

It's literally only 3m from gate/lane to manhole and through a fully opening tilt/turn window.

Is it safe to contact WW or do i go private?

I am also shocked to see the way the downstairs flat is entering it, 1100mm with elbow and 32mm waste just entering and sunk in concrete!

Thanks

 

[bilabonic]

Also is it me or does that look like garden soil/mud and not a paper/waste blockage?

Cheers

 

[snowhead]

The question mark is rodding access for an interceptor trap which were used prior to Stack / vent systems.
Very prone to blockage nowadays.

And the discharge from the downstairs flat should be turned down and drop closer and turn towards the main flow, so the cr"p and paper doesn't splatter on the channel and stick.

 

[bilabonic]

The question mark is rodding access for an interceptor trap which were used prior to Stack / vent systems.
Very prone to blockage nowadays.

And the discharge from the downstairs flat should be turned down and drop closer and turn towards the main flow, so the cr"p and paper doesn't splatter on the channel and stick.

View attachment 79411

I wondered what it was, both next door each side have covers on them.

To me it looks like soil in the pipe going to flat upstairs/main downpipe.....
I do have more/better pics

 

[snowhead]

If Welsh Water will clear foul drains that are not their responsibility then I'd go with them.

Then you won't get the hard sell of camera survey is essential at extra ££ or religning the drains at ££ or removing the interceptor at £££££££££££££££££££ etc.

It could do with a camera back up the upstairs line to confirm it's O.K or failing and washing in soil ect.

 

[bilabonic]

To me it looks like mud/soil in the pipe.

I’m not happy where the new downpipe (9/10 Years ago) when I had grant for insulation.

This stepped out the soil pipe and there’s there’s X2 45s just before it enters the ground.

Just looks like trouble.

 

[PETE 123]

It could be a broken drain upstream where gravel is washed down over time.

 

[bilabonic]

This is getting worse!

Had local company out, tidy boys, £100 cash said they will clear it.

They first cleared the outgoing side that had debris/dashing from work done years ago (insulation etc hence why the x2 45deg to step it out at the bottom of new downpipe).

They then started to clear the blocked side and a LOT came out, stuff you would expect to see/smell, they tried for good 20 mins and then upstairs was still blocked.

They then plunged toilet upstairs and it was doing nothing.

They then stated blockage might be up top on one bend/process off elimination and were happy to put a snake down the downpipe if i drilled a hole at chest height.
I drilled it and pure clean water came out with a distinct smell of some form of drain cleaner.

They then stated they have to walk, but the smell went as more water was expelled and brownish water appeared (i was amazed at the power of the water tbh, the downpipe must of been full to the top!)

They then stated they would NOT put a snake in the hole as water containing cleaner might blow back and if i cut the pipe they would then put the snake in same position of the hole they would put snake down there.

i cut it, and basicallt the pipe came away and you could see the blockage of compacted toilet paper in the 45 deg, they the stated this compacted blockage is probably continuing down 5ft at least to another clay U bend and if they could not shift from the manhole then they could not shift from the newly exposed end.

They said jet washer might do it but they had nothing that would go around the U bend and it needs to be dug up!!!

Is ths correct or do i try a jet wash company to blast it from the blocked/compacted toilet end?

Or can i slowly remove all the paper with a smaller type snake (like for 32/40mm pipe) and use end of my drain rods with spiral?

Or do i hire a Kango Hammer and start digging/cutting/drilling the concrete to expose what is there and replace the clay with PVC and use a connecting rubber collar (used one years ago from new PVC to old clay).

i don;t know hat to do tbh, it seems such a small section that is now blocked but as they stated it probably a U bend and 5 ft down!

Anyone advise

Cheers

 

[Ben-gee]

Pull as much as you can back out from that bend. I’d start off with those gloves vets use to delivery calves from cows.
Then move on to the spiral auger on your drain rods.
Once you can’t pull any more out, fire your hose pipe down there whilst plunging your rods with the rubber disc on them.

 

[bilabonic]

Pull as much as you can back out from that bend. I’d start off with those gloves vets use to delivery calves from cows.
Then move on to the spiral auger on your drain rods.
Once you can’t pull any more out, fire your hose pipe down there whilst plunging your rods with the rubber disc on them.

This was my thinking tbh, i have a pair of shoulder gloves somewhere from a previous blockage, i could also get my jet washer there...
I wonder if Karcher do a flexible hose type end?

After leaving the job i went straight to Speedy hire as it was close to see what they had, they had a worse rod set than mine.
I was hoping they had a spiral type unblocker, i'm SURE i have seen them, they wind up like a self reattracting hose lock pipe.

After chatting the guy he stated get a different drain company as all the 'unblocking products' used have now been dispensed with.

 

[snowhead]

You must have found and hired the only drain unblocking company in the country that doesn't have a jetter with them.

Did they think or do they know that there's a U bend or gulley in the ground where the pipe connects, as there shouldn't be.

Whatever you do don't be tempted to push the blockage down, try and pull it up bit at a time otherwise it'll end up stuck in the inteceptor.

Use a drain rod with a screw or a piece of wire bent with a hook on the end or you hands in gloves or anything else you can get down and hook into the paper.

As I put in post 6 avoid chemical cleaners, always, anywhere near drains, never use them or allow them to be used.

Once the blockage does start to clear keep putting plenty of water down.

 

[bilabonic]

You must have found and hired the only drain unblocking company in the country that doesn't have a jetter with them.

Did they think or do they know that there's a U bend or gulley in the ground where the pipe connects, as there shouldn't be.

Whatever you do don't be tempted to push the blockage down, try and pull it up bit at a time otherwise it'll end up stuck in the inteceptor.

Use a drain rod with a screw or a piece of wire bent with a hook on the end or you hands in gloves or anything else you can get down and hook into the paper.

As I put in post 6 avoid chemical cleaners, always, anywhere near drains, never use them or allow them to be used.

Yes they were adamant there was a big clay U bend there that could NOT be cleared, right where the down pipe section enters floor/concrete, they stated if it was a simple elbow the their snake would of cleared it via entrance via the manhole easily. The only solution is to dig the U bend out that goes down 5ft and replace with a plastic elbow!
Even when i started pulling it out manually they laughed and said stop wasting your time, i even asked to borrow their rod end i could see in the van but they said it was pointless as it was jammed solid an i would only be removing a tiny top layer of the total blockage

It's as if they had enough, wanted payment and to just leave.....

I did advise tenant NOT to use any chemicals etc, and she has not and there was a slight small tbh but nothing major, plus i got soaked in it anyway and washed it off with no harm done.

I totally understand their restraint due to an odour of some form of cleaner.

Thanks for replying, i really hope i can unblock this and leave a relevant review for them tbh

 

[bilabonic]

UPDATE- spoke to another jetting company and sent them pics yesterday.
They weee shocked that the other company could not unblock the it plus they stated there is no U bend there.
That is done at the manhole on older properties before we had downpours etc.
he said there may be branches off it /T sections and will also check with the camera.

I’m meeting him this morning to have look.

I guess if this does not work I will have to dig it up and replace which I don’t mind tbh it’s just Labour and the fact it goes under or cowboy job and it’s part of the footing!!

I’ll update later.

Thanks so far.