Help me understanding my heating installation and replacement

[Teebag]

Hi all,

I just joined the forum as I couldn't find help just being a lurker.

I just bought my first house (yay me) and it's a new one. The installation has been done my a bunch of different people and the plumber himself couldn't explain fully what he's done (yes, you read it right). I tried to understand myself, open junction boxes etc but, you will see in the picture, it's a mess.

The house is configured this way (three different valves on the boiler):

• Underfloor wet heating split into two zones for the ground floor
• Radiators on the floors (1st and 2nd floor, 4 rooms in total)
• Water cylinder

The underfloor heating is controlled via remote two heatmiser thermostats connected to a UH8-RF.
The radiators are all controlled via a single honeywell remote thermostat.
Then there is a Dangoss programmer in the mix (Electronic 3-Channel FP735Si).

See the attached pictures for a better idea of the installation.

My questions to the forum:

• what is the point of the Dangoss programmer in all of that? Is it to allow each unit (UH, rads and cylinder) to turn have the boiler on? Is it really necessary?
• I want to have smarter thermostats with something more centralised. I got three Nest Thermostat thinking it would be doable to swap all to it but the more I dig the more it looks complicated if doable at all. What do you think? I installed a Nest myself in my previous flat on a combi boiler but it was a much more straight forward installation.

I am not a good DYI person but I am not afraid of putting my hands in wires so long I know where I am going. Can you help me getting to that point please?

Cheers

 

[Madder]

I'm curious what is the orange piping?
Heatmiser are the market leaders in smart thermostats there neostats will do everything and more than nest and hive.

 

[king of pipes]

On the surface it doesn't look that bad the installer wasnt a complete novice where these systems fall down is when they are are wired trying to configure different makes of control can sometimes be difficult theres alot going on there a good sparks should be able to test out the separate circuits controls and explain better than your engineer or maybe with him there also I have my own electrician who I work closely with we both check systems out. Kop

 

[ShaunCorbs]

I'm curious what is the orange piping?
Heatmiser are the market leaders in smart thermostats there neostats will do everything and more than nest and hive.

Sprinkler / mister system
[automerge]1575448057[/automerge]
Looks good install but where’s your main stop tap gone it’s in the pic with the pipping but not with the final boxing ?

Also your filling loop has gone aswell ?

 

[Teebag]

Thanks all! My comments below.

I'm curious what is the orange piping?
Heatmiser are the market leaders in smart thermostats there neostats will do everything and more than nest and hive.

Indeed, orange pipe is for sprinklers.

Can neostats / Heatmiser automatically learn and adapt to our pattern? Can it detect if I am getting home early and turn on the heating? Those are the types of things I liked from the Nest as well the very looking style it has (thermostats are often very ugly).

On the surface it doesn't look that bad the installer wasnt a complete novice where these systems fall down is when they are are wired trying to configure different makes of control can sometimes be difficult theres alot going on there a good sparks should be able to test out the separate circuits controls and explain better than your engineer or maybe with him there also I have my own electrician who I work closely with we both check systems out. Kop

That's a good sumup ; it "looks" good indeed but behind the scene it's hard for anyone to maintain. I will have to get someone in anyway to help understanding it / cleaning and switching to something "smarter".

Sprinkler / mister system
[automerge]1575448057[/automerge]
Looks good install but where’s your main stop tap gone it’s in the pic with the pipping but not with the final boxing ?

Also your filling loop has gone aswell ?

Those are two very questions... I feel like they just buried the whole thing and I can't even fill-in at the moment (I have air in the radiators but I am afraid of venting it as I will lose pressure I can put back).

 

[Teebag]

Hi guys,

Thanks so far for the ones who responded to my thread.

I am now really going for a full replacement of the current controls with Nest Thermostat ones. I think this is how the installation would look like:

• I get rid of the the Dangoss programmer (it will be replaced with the Nests)
• Hot water and radiators valves connected onto one Nest
• UH8 zone 1 connected to one Nest
• UH8 zone 2 connected to one Nest

Does that make sense?

Thanks
[automerge]1576247823[/automerge]
EDIT: actually the UH8-RF can't be used with anything else to control it. So I need a new underfloor heating wiring center. I will go for the UH4, I don't need 8, without the "RF" feature. Does that make sense to you?

 

[ShaunCorbs]

Are you sure as I’m sure it’s just a wired stat with the uh8

??

 

[Teebag]

Are you sure as I’m sure it’s just a wired stat with the uh8

??

Well, I think yes. Look at the inside:

 

[ShaunCorbs]

What’s the two sets of brown and blue wires

Unless there paired up as 2 zones per circuit ?

 

[Teebag]

What’s the two sets of brown and blue wires

Unless there paired up as 2 zones per circuit ?

Yes indeed, the wiring diagram shows them as 2 N + 2 L. And looking at the manifold picture I can see 4 valves so it's likely split into 2 x 2 zones actually.

 

[ShaunCorbs]

Yes indeed, the wiring diagram shows them as 2 N + 2 L. And looking at the manifold picture I can see 4 valves so it's likely split into 2 x 2 zones actually.

Need the non wireless version then sorry

 

[Teebag]

Need the non wireless version then sorry

Yes, good to see I start to understand those ones! I ordered one, UH4, only 50 quids when a Nest pro installer quoted 200 + installation cost!

 

[SJB060685]

@ShaunCorbs. Sorry to jump in on post. I asked you a question in 2 port valve to separate rads post. Can you read and respond when you can please.

 

[Teebag]

Hi all,

I am slowly progressing in the planning of switching off my heatmiser thermostats for the Nest ones.

I am currently planning on swapping my UH8-RF for a UH4 in order to control the manifold actuator valves through the Nest. Here is the UH8-RF diagram:

And here is the UH4:

The main "problematic" difference I note is the split between the UFH pump and the UFH Valve. On the UH8 it's on two separate sockets whereas the UH4 is on a single one. Will this be a problem?

This is a reminder of how my UH8 is currently wired:

As you can see I only have the "live" plugged on the UFH Valve ; is it "normal"?

I think in terms of wiring I can do:
- putting everything on the UH4, ie UFH vales + radiator valve + hot water valve, so I end up with a single device plugged on the boiler. Then I would have 1 Nest controlling UF zone 1, 1 Nest controlling UF zone 2, 1 Nest controlling zone 4 (configured as radiators) + hot water.

Does that make sense?

Thanks

 

[SJB060685]

From what I can see on the new board the pump live is activated through end switch on zone valve and there must be a link to bring the boiler on that I cant see in diagram. If you follow the wiring diagram you should be ok

 

[Brambles]

UH8RF controls the pump differently to a UH4 ( the former has an adjustable delay setting).

The current wiring for your UFH looks incomplete for the valve.

You really need an “as built” wiring diagram for your existing system - to properly understand how it is configured.

 

[ShaunCorbs]

Looks fine to me just wire it as instructions probably picking up a neutral from somewhere by the valve

 

[Teebag]

Thanks all ; much appreciated.

I guess that the wiring on the valves is generally "safe"? ie so long I don't plug 220 on those I should be safe to make a mistake? I think I need a multimeter!

 

[ShaunCorbs]

Yes just follow your existing zones eg two into one

turn the power off before any works check that it is off with a multi meter

 

[RoryD]

Hi guys,

Thanks so far for the ones who responded to my thread.

I am now really going for a full replacement of the current controls with Nest Thermostat ones. I think this is how the installation would look like:

• I get rid of the the Dangoss programmer (it will be replaced with the Nests)
• Hot water and radiators valves connected onto one Nest
• UH8 zone 1 connected to one Nest
• UH8 zone 2 connected to one Nest

Does that make sense?

Thanks
[automerge]1576247823[/automerge]
EDIT: actually the UH8-RF can't be used with anything else to control it. So I need a new underfloor heating wiring center. I will go for the UH4, I don't need 8, without the "RF" feature. Does that make sense to you?

If that is Nu-Heat UFH it will not operate correctly with a NEST as I was informed by Technical. Nu-Heat supply a similar unit that functions the same. also.....my concern is......why are you called Tee bag?? ........😂

 

[Teebag]

If that is Nu-Heat UFH it will not operate correctly with a NEST as I was informed by Technical. Nu-Heat supply a similar unit that functions the same. also...my concern is....why are you called Tee bag?? .😂

Which "unit" do you mean? The wiring center? On paper the UH8-RF is doing the same as UH4 but with the wireless part.

Re the nickname it's a long story.

 

[RoryD]

Which "unit" do you mean? The wiring center? On paper the UH8-RF is doing the same as UH4 but with the wireless part.

Re the nickname it's a long story.

The Underfloor Heating is not responsive to temperature settings remotely unless Nu Heats isused(I just believed and used theirs which worked great). Judging by your pic your Nickname came from when you served?

 

[Teebag]

The Underfloor Heating is not responsive to temperature settings remotely unless Nu Heats isused(I just believed and used theirs which worked great). Judging by your pic your Nickname came from when you served?

Hm I am not familiar with Nu Heats ; is it a specific brand for the manifold? Can you tell it from the very picture of the OP? ("20191120_161226.jpg").

Nickname is from silly jokes at Uni and image is from gaming ; sorry I didn't serve.

 

[RoryD]

Hm I am not familiar with Nu Heats ; is it a specific brand for the manifold? Can you tell it from the very picture of the OP? ("20191120_161226.jpg").

Nickname is from silly jokes at Uni and image is from gaming ; sorry I didn't serve.

Actually you are right it isn't Nu-Heat. However try to identify the Manufacterer and find out if it is possible. Regarding the "Spaghetti"... That is par for the course in most cases. Sometimes if there is an issue, it's best to call someone in.

 

[Brambles]

Rory,

The units are Heatmisers - albeit they may be badged under a different brand name. My understanding is that Teabag wants to use Nest so he /she is removing the 12v UFH 8 RF unit and the Neo Air stats and replacing it with the 240v UFH 4 unit coupled to Nest. I assume he is doing this because Neo Air which is compatible with the UFH 8 RF don’t include smart TRV’s in their range to control the radiator circuits (you have to use air stats and zone valves) An alternative would be Evohome to control everything - but that is In a different price league.

It is a fairly straightforward change, provided you wire the UFH 4 (240v) correctly and don’t just copy the 12v UFH 8 RF wiring.