help - water in heating system is brown

[chris1970]

hi,
i used to get clear / grey coloured water but now i get brown ?
this started happening about a month ago after i removed the rads and poured boiling water and flushed through them to clean them.
the reason i decided to clean rads out was because i have experienced some pumping over last year.
i didn't put inhibitor in the system because i knew i was going to do some other work ,
is the brown water due to new rust ? but i was surprised just after a few weeks this happens ?
i also have air problems and have to bleed off about a cup full of air every few weeks - i can hear air being pushed around the water circuit.
last year i ran some F3 through the system but it didn't seem to do much.
here's a photo of the inside of the magnet filter which is located just after the 3 port valve - the probe part did have 5mm of mayonnaise type sludge on but i cleaned it before taking photo,
the magnet filter used to collect black particles that i used to be able to flush away but with the brown sludge on the particles must be sticking to it.
i was wondering if i should run some cleaner through again and if so which type or just mains water ( i have cleaned the f and e tank which had some brown residue/dust in it and also the magnet filter is clean again.)
i have just fitted a new rad and some work around the pump in the airing cupboard and wondering should i run cleaner through it or just water and add inhibitor,
i need to try and cure the air problem and was maybe thinking to add some leak sealer at some stage.
any advice welcome,
thank you,

 

[chris1970]

here's a photo of the airing cupboard,
i have raised the pump up a foot , the pipe that came out the floor upto the pump had maybe half a mm of black on the inside of the pipe, the feed and vent connections are approx. 3 feet closer to the boiler which maybe blocked more because a magnet attracts to them,
i was thinking to get an air separator fitted above the boiler to replace the feed and vent connections if i can't cure the air problems ?





maybe the brown i'm experiencing recently is just temporary and if i add inhibitor will go away and maybe it's just bad in the filter and tank because they are plastic,

i was thinking to get some sent X800 ? because its fast acting results ?

 

[gasmanrob]

It would appear what looks like a combined vent and cold feed is located in the wrong place

 

[chris1970]

good morning,
there's separate feed and vent pipes directly above the boiler on the flow (the pump is 3 feet away in the airing cupboard above), if i get a small magnet it sticks to the T's so maybe they are a bit blocked but now i have cleaned the downstairs rads well and set the pump slower the pumping over seems to have stopped.
the air is my main concern and stopping this brown stuff.

 

[dancinplumba]

What's the pipe going up off dhw heating pipe ?

 

[chris1970]

there's a manual air bleed valve just out of shot,
air collects in the airing cupboard mainly and a small amount in the bathroom rad and one bedroom,
i thought of fitting an auto bottle vent in the airing cupboard but i read somewhere that its a bad idea with the boiler and pump i have,
another thought i had was to replace the air valve on the filter for an auto one.
i'm not sure if air problem is due to lack of inhibitor or i may have leaks etc so i was thinking to get some leak sealer, but should i clean system best i can now while system is drained.

 

[chris1970]

i had a new boiler fitted last may and didn't use it all summer, when it came to the winter i noticed the air problem and noisey pump,
in november i fitted new pump and ran F3 through but it didn't do much, in jan i removed rads and cleaned by hand.
recently i have been getting brown water hopefully from lack of inhibitor ? or maybe the air problem is making rads rust now they are cleaner ?
i also have had to clean the FE tank , in october had like a slime, jan/feb residues and silt , march light brown silt,
first time i cleaned the tank I didn't do it properly - i removed the slime but the dirty water i drained through the system , so maybe i have contaminated the system ? but i have since run F3 and flushed with water many times.
it seems like the more i'm cleaning it the browner the water is getting - is that just new rust on a 30 year old system ? and lack of inhibitor ? it goes brown after 2 -3 weeks.
i'm not sure what plan of action to take,
i was thinking to flush with mains water ( i can close off all the rads and open one at a time and see the brown coming through)
then add inhibitor,
i can set the pump to low now it's spring,
if air keeps accumulating add leak sealer (but if water is brown again should i start with fresh water and new inhibitor ?)
if no improvements i was thinking to get the feed and vent area re-done and add an air separator above the boiler ?
at some stage i should perhaps find out why and where i'm getting the air - maybe someone can pressurize the system and look for leaks ? or maybe i should close some rads off and see if i can find a leaking rad , but that will take me ages.
suppose i should add inhibitor and start again,
i was thinking to get some x800 and give it a quick clean or maybe a different product ?
i have just fitted a new large rad in the hall so i guess that will rust quickly if i have air problem, also i have done some soldering so i guess there will be flux etc inside the pipes

 

[PhoenixServices]

If it's not pumping over, run mains water through it and add inhibitor. Then when it's warmer turn off hw and heating and isolate the header tank for a day and see if the water level drops. If it does you know you have a leak.

 

[walterwhite]

I suggest you get the guy who installed the boiler back to quote for sealing the system...if it's done properley air will no longer be a problem. Any leaks will become apparent by boiler drop in pressure. Find & fix and then you can rest knowing that your system isn't corroding...

 

[chris1970]

hi, thanks all for the advice,
so sealing the system means capping off the feed and vent and adding an expansion vessel ? how does it get pressurized ? from the water heating up ?
i wont do this myself i was just wondering the method .
i will do the switching off water supply to tank and seeing if the level drops, and trying leak sealer - i may get lucky.
also my bathroom rad is rusty maybe i will close off the lockshields and see if that makes any difference,
my problem is it takes weeks for air to accumulate and difficult to know what's going on because i'm trying many things at same time.
would it be an idea to get someone to pressurize the system and try to find a leak ? i heard it's possible to pump up with air and you can hear leaks ?

 

[Best]

A sealed system is pressurised from a filling loop fitted anywhere handy & connects from water mains to a heating pipe. Expansion vessels can have an all in one kit.
You need to find out if your boiler suitable & your system totally sound before system is sealed. Best job for stopping air & has less corrosion

 

[Best]

It could be sealed & if it is a problem, then work undone no bother

 

[chris1970]

the boiler is worcester 15ri
i was thinking to connect a heating pipe to the mains myself to check for a leak , is that a bad idea ?