Help with some options for Hot Water system for Elderly Mum

[Alfie Henderson]

Hi Guys, hope someone can help me sort out some practical solutions for problems my Mum currently has.

Bit of long story but my Mum thought she had leak coming down chimney of her bungalow as slightly brown/damp patch above hot water tank in airing cupboard. On Saturday, I pulled away plasterboard to reveal the cold water tank sat above on ceiling joists, then pulled away a bit more to reveal dinner plate sized rusty patch on bottom of tank (old galvanised steel me thinks) which was steadliy dripping. Luckily she has Homeserve type policy, so while we waited for guy to turn up I drained the tank.

My problem is that we have no gas where I live and I'm pretty clueless on combined CH/Hot Water systems as we rely on Eco7.

A really nice guy from Homeserve contractor turned up and made sure I had drained tank properly and started having a look. The end result being a series of issues which need to be resolved some how being:

1) Tank has had it and could have gone at any minute (it supplies cold water to one bathroom only and hot water tank below)

2) Tank must have been put in place before roof went on as there is now way to get any sort of plastic tank through loft hatch to replace it. There is not much pitch to roof and loft hatch comes up on sloping area of roof and you have to lie on stomach to get into loft space.

3) There is separate smaller tank (I obviously want to have this looked at to see if it needs replaced as it looks same age as the other) for CH system that runs off reasonably new Baxi Back Bolier to gas fire

4) Replacing tank (s) looks like there is little option other than to take off roof tiles and cut into at least one roof joist or cut into ceiling joists and take up that way. Either way I'm worried about structural issues.

5) As things stand Mum currently has no hot water as isolating supply to rusty tank has stopped feed to hot water tank and hot water won't run. Luckily its not too cold and she still has cloakroom with mains fed toilet.

Homeserve policy only cover call-out and making safe but contractor is going to try and come up with some options today. Rumour has it that there is not sufficient water pressure in the village where she lives to supply combi boiler (one option that ran through my mind), but I keen to think of all possible options for her, bearing in mind she is a pensioner with not a huge amount of money to throw around.

If some hasn't yet invented a flat packed water tank that will go up through roof space, now the time to get going with plans! Any suggestions much appreciated! :waving:

 

[mountainman]

Obviously the guy who was on site would have the advantage of seeing the access to the loft.
I have solved this problem by fitting two linked 25 gallon plastic tanks, they fold up quite small.

 

[jtsplumbing]

I think best plan would be to get a new access hatch fitted in loft, then you could also get free loft insulation installed, how old is back boiler ? some new combi's will work on low pressure, are you on LPG ? you dont want to cut away any roof trusse's or mess around with roof, best to get in a carpenter to install loft hatch.

 

[Alfie Henderson]

Thanks guys.

My Mum's got mains gas and the boiler is only 5 years old. Small world on internet as mum lives in Ipplepen, Devon, but originally came from Romford, Essex!

Since I posted I have been looking at "coffin" type tanks and wondering if we might be able to squeeze one of that type through. I'm going over to see her tonight and will see if that is a possible. Any recommendations on the most bendy/flexible type? Unfortunately with my weight she may finish up with a larger loft hatch by the time I get up there!

 

[petercj]

As you have pulled away the plasterboard already, would it be easier to remove a joist so that the tank can be accessed from below?

Depending on load bearing, you might need to cross brace the relevant joists before removing a section, or/and use props - as is done when fitting a loft hatch in a pre-existing ceiling.

E.g. once the old tank is disconnected it would need to be slid away from the joist it sits on, then remove a section of the joist so that the tank can be lifted down through the gap. The new tank is then uploaded through the gap and slid to the side while a new length of joist is fixed in place by overlapping and bolting through on each side of the opening. This of course is subject to any cross-bracing or propping being in place first.

If you don’t fancy the job yourself, it’s the kind of job that any half decent chippie could do.

If two smaller tanks isn’t an option, then I would have thought removing a joist was a better option than pulling the roof apart.

 

[petercj]

Beaten to it!!!

 

[Alfie Henderson]

Thanks Petercj.

The only bit of ceiling I've pulled away is inside the airing cupboard for hot tank and I'm not sure if there would be room to get tank up there even if joists were opened up temporarily. The roof space in her bungalow is bizarre really and I finished up in her neighbour's on Saturday to see if their hatch was in similar place (which it was). If the "coffin" option is not a goer then I'm thinking a new hatch in one of her bedrooms could be simplest solution, especially if anyone need to get up to water tanks in future. Not only do you have to go up through hatch on stomach, you then have to slide on stomach under a horizontal joists that spans trusses.

I'll post solution to this problem as and when found, if you don't hear back its because I'm stuck in my Mum's loft space!

 

[petercj]

If a second loft hatch can be sited somewhere, that would sound like the best option (other than the two smaller tank idea if feasible)

It's a reasonably straightforward job for any competent DIY'er, and if you use one of the plastic hatches, there probably won't be any plastering or even painting involved.

Such as one of these:-

Insulated Loft Door White | NoLinkingToThis

There is lots of guidance on the net. Choosing the right spot is an important issue to get right.

As you are able to get up into the loft, I would be inclined to do the cross-bracing first, which may well dispense with any need for propping, and should also prevent any problems re your weight while you're up there.

If your mum is making an insurance claim for the water damage to the ceiling, then I would have thought you could get a really keen price for the hatch to be fitted at the same time.

 

[Alfie Henderson]

Quick update.

Still looking to try coffin tank option and someone coming later today to try and get some further measurements to see if possible to get tank/s up there without looking at having to cut new hatch. Going to be a squeeze as loft hatch is 60x60 with only 90cm immediate clearance above and a then a wide gap only 35cm high to get through to part of loft where tanks are!

 

[jtsplumbing]

Well you will-not get a coffin tank in that space ! dont know why you are messing around, just put in a proper roof hatch, its just stupid to try and use what you have, how would you expect to get in the loft in a hurry, good idea haveing to slide in on your stomach ! that is until you fall through ceiling .