Hot and cold installation advice!

[mutley racers]

Hi guy's! Am in need of a bit of help.

I have a project on which am not too sure of how to run my pipes.

Basically, it's a 3 bed bungalow which has one bathroom and one toilet.

It is fed indirectly.

The customer wants an en-suite in one of the bedrooms which is 12 metres from the hot water storage vessel. The side where they want the ensuite has concrete floors and so am not able to run the pipes in the floors. Can i put a secondary return on the hot distribution and pump it up through the loft to the en-suite?

or should i run it under the floor where floorboards are and then up where concrete floor is and around the skirting to the bed room and get it boxed in?

Look forward to your input

Cheers

 

[moony]

a secondary return over just twelve metres ?

you could run a feed from cylinder into pump then pump it up and over.

 

[justlead1]

Hi. If it a gravity feed hot water cylinder? Running through the loft and dropping down may well result in air being drawn down the vent and the spasmodic interruption of hot supply. Increasing the size of cold feed to cylinder will help to avoid the forma problem. A bronze pump (timed) fitted to a seconary return cuircit would be necessary with the pipe length quoted. Good Luck

 

[moony]

just lead can you explain the secondary return to me - im currently on my 3rd year and juts wondering whether im right in thinking it would come off the cylinder and not the hot pipe off the top of the cylinder ? we have fitted secondary return but this was on building nealry 50 metres long it was not a graqvity fed system. does a secondary return tee back into the hot at any point ? i have limited knowledge on this, i had it in my head that you could run another hot feed off the cylinder with an essex flange? so are you calling this a secondary return ?

 

[mutley racers]

Hey thanks just lead. That is just what i thought.

If you don't mind i could do with a bit more help.

The walls in the house are solid brick and so cant run my pipes down through them to bath etc.

Would it be possible to run the pipes down from the loft under the floors and supply the bathroom, shower etc. I don't think so?

I think i would have to run them down the wall and box them in.

What would you suggest?

Thanks for the advice. It's much appreciated!!!

 

[stevetheplumber]

if you run one up and over and return down and under you can have a gravity loop

 

[Cds]

Is the Cylinder a mains pressure/un-vented? If it is then you should be able to do what you are suggesting. If not then if you can not run any pipework above the height of the header tank. If you do this pipework will drain back into the cylinder and you will get no flow.

You could install a negative shower type pump with non return valves in the hot pipe work. When a tap is opened the pump will come on and pump the water to the bath room. When the tap is closed then the non return valve will stop the water running back to the cylinder.

Hope this helps.

 

[justlead1]

Hi. Be aware that on domestic properties when pipes are boxed (insulated or not) and secondary return is employed, the cold supply with get warm if in the same small boxing. Running the pipes down under the floor from the cylinder position would be fine. As an alternative consider dropping down from loft in say the bedroom next to bathroom or in a wardrobe etc. As for the proposed secondary return a 15 mm return with a bronze circulator on would be my method, Although gravity circulation can be used for this purpose. In single story building its difficult to achieve owing to the lack of circulating head (The return will need to rise at the cylinder end of the circuit which would stall circulation) If you use the loft option you could use gravity if the secondary return tee is fitted just before it drops to the bathroom (branched off in loft) but this would leave say 3 m dead leg which may be acceptable. Also remember with gravity it works when ever the cylinder is hot and unless controlled creates a 24/7 heat loss. Good Luck