hot water cylinder, which connector?

1animal1 · Aug 18, 2015

Hi, I'm after a bit of advice on this part please. I'm looking to replace the connection to the lower central heating point on my cylinder. The bolt itself measures 1 1/2" with 22mm pipe coming out of it - presume also that it's a bolt with a male thread.

Can anyone confirm if this part will fit? JGHSP250 speedfit cylinder connector.

I am looking to use 2 speed fit elbows and new 22mm copper pipe to make the joint up but need to confirm the above part before stripping anything down.

Thanks

Tim

1animal1 · Aug 18, 2015

Chalked · Aug 18, 2015

Hi
It will only need taking apart, the union and cylinder fave cleaning up. Then make a Ptfe washer by making it into a thin strand and wrapping around the copper Union. Use a bit if jet blue on this and put back together. Far better than speedfit!

1animal1 · Aug 19, 2015

Thanks chalked.... I was going to get a plumber in but I'm a keen and generally successful diy'er (hope I haven't jinxed myself

.

The joint is in a really tight place and I only need it to last a couple of years before the tank comes out. Trouble is the speed fit elbows won't go on the existing pipe coming from the cylinder due to a large collar, my only option is to replace that bolt with either a compression fitting or speed fit

Best · Aug 19, 2015

1animal1 said:
Thanks chalked.... I was going to get a plumber in but I'm a keen and generally successful diy'er (hope I haven't jinxed myself .

The joint is in a really tight place and I only need it to last a couple of years before the tank comes out. Trouble is the speed fit elbows won't go on the existing pipe coming from the cylinder due to a large collar, my only option is to replace that bolt with either a compression fitting or speed fit

Trust me, that ain't a "really tight place"! There looks loads of space there. Plumbers are used to awkward places. You probably should just do as advised.

1animal1 · Aug 19, 2015

I've had to chip the skirting boards away so I can get a splice in to cut that downward facing pipe, I'll then have to work at maximum reach as there is a pump and 3 22mm pipes where I held the camera to take that picture. It's tight enough

plus you can see from the burn marks on the wall that it's been attempted more than once, not mentioning the copious amounts of solder. No offence but for me to shell out £50-£100 on a plumber when I could end up with the same problem....

I have the tools, a splice, jointing compound and a history of fitting out full bathrooms, kitchens etc. The system is a low pressure vented type - I'm sure two speedfit elbows fitted to copper will hold out until we can afford a relocated unvented.

Can anyone help with the size of this nut please?

Thanks

Tim

SimonG · Aug 19, 2015

I'll be the third one. Get a plumber or you might need a new cylinder sooner than you think.

stevetheplumber · Aug 19, 2015

could be the cylinderwall conection thats leaking already

1animal1 · Aug 19, 2015

Apologies for being sceptical, but why will a new nut and new copper piece not suffice? I can and have drained the system down twice now without issue, furthermore I've replaced a pump gate valve, installed a drain tap and fitted new valves successfully. What is making you think that I am not capable of this? Genuine question

1animal1 · Aug 19, 2015

Hi Steve, I've already checked that, it's 100% the joint closest the wall. There is no dampness near the nut at all. It appears completely sound... However I do understand that the area can corrode quite easily, is this why the recommendation from so many for a plumber, so the nut isn't disturbed?

Chalked · Aug 19, 2015

The advice that has been given is how a professional plumber would fix it. But seen as though you are going to do it in speedfit, the cylinder thread is 1 inch parralell thread.

JG Speedfit Female Cylinder Adaptor 22 X 1" - 22CFA

Best · Aug 19, 2015

1animal1 said:
Apologies for being sceptical, but why will a new nut and new copper piece not suffice? I can and have drained the system down twice now without issue, furthermore I've replaced a pump gate valve, installed a drain tap and fitted new valves successfully. What is making you think that I am not capable of this? Genuine question

It is because the job is fairly simple to a plumber. I know I could replace that all in copper with any joint soldered or brass compression easily.

1animal1 · Aug 19, 2015

Thanks chalked, much appreciated

I would go with a professional job if the repair was to be more long term, it just seems like a false economy given that this cylinder will be relocated and an unvented fitted, making this particular bit of pipework entirely redundant.

I really do appreciate both of your help on this, thank you

jtsplumbing · Aug 20, 2015

Why not re do it with copper fittings ? speed-fit will be quite bulky , remove the leaking section, make up another new piece using copper fittings, replace 22mm olive on tank fitting, if you want to use push fit look at tec-tight fittings not as big & bulky as S/fit.

1animal1 · Aug 20, 2015

Hi JTS, I think I'd have to replace the tank fitting as the exiting pipe is in a horrible state. Wouldn't a new tank fitting require soldering a new piece of 22mm?

jtsplumbing · Aug 20, 2015

No the tank fitting is not leaking, you could cause more problems trying to remove it, just undo the brass nut , cut out leaking section of pipe, all you need to do upon reassembling is to fit a new 22mm Olive, If you can solder fittings I would remove that faulty section, make up a new section it would be easy to do once removed, then reconnect further back along the side of the wall where it was more accessible.

1animal1 · Aug 20, 2015

Oh i see! So upon undoing the nut, the pipe is connected via an olive compression connection? I have only seen one brass version of this nut other than the speedfit and it had a small piece of copper pipe attached (collar) ready to solder a new piece into it. So I presumed I had to go for the speedfit cylinder nut or learn how to solder copper pipe :willy_nilly:....

What your saying is, undo the nut - cut the pipe where it drops down into the floor (lift the whole piece out) leaving enough for a push copper bend to fit onto the piece going into the floor to run level with the cylinder connection, then run a piece from the cylinder with a new olive fitting a new bend to run to the other - and cutting a 22mm piece to connect the two bends...

Chalked · Aug 20, 2015

jtsplumbing said:
No the tank fitting is not leaking, you could cause more problems trying to remove it, just undo the brass nut , cut out leaking section of pipe, all you need to do upon reassembling is to fit a new 22mm Olive, If you can solder fittings I would remove that faulty section, make up a new section it would be easy to do once removed, then reconnect further back along the side of the wall where it was more accessible.

Sorry. But that is 100% a cylinder Union. Not a compression fitting.

To the op. If you are going to replace the cylinder for a pressurised unit in a years time. Why not just catch the small amount of water for now.
Or get a friend to recommend a plumber who will sort it very easily. Probably cost £40-£60 depending where you are. You are going to spend £20 on materials to fix. It's not much more for peace of mind.

1animal1 · Aug 20, 2015

Easy to say when I have a 4 bed to renovate/make habitable and pay for a wedding next year

I really appreciate the advice, this forum has been invaluable in the short time I've been here.

So the nut doesn't have an olive behind it and the only solution is for the pre discussed speedfit nut and pipe... if I were to attack myself?

The other consideration of leaving it simply won't fit my OCD

it's currently leaking a third of a plastic cup a day so presume I'm at higher risk of it bursting if I leave it?

jtsplumbing · Aug 20, 2015

Sorry only took a quick look, but you can still reuse it (Unsolder) or just get a new one and still as B4 replace that section of pipe

1animal1 · Aug 20, 2015

Won't i need to solder with a new one as the new ones I've seen come with a collar to slide in a new pipe (to solder).

I don't have soldering gear or experience doing that I'm afraid.

jtsplumbing · Aug 20, 2015

Whatever you desire to do good luck with it, if your lacking confidence to do it, do the prep work and call a plumber to do the pipe work , cant see it costing that much.

1animal1 · Aug 20, 2015

Thanks JTS. I've found another online plumbing firm that was able to supply the joint 50% cheaper, and a 1 metre piece of 22mm copper for £4 - should cover this job for £15

Then onto the next one - converting the rads to 10mm from 8mm :toilet:

jtsplumbing · Aug 20, 2015

Any reason why you cant do it in small bore ? micro-bore can cause problems if not done right !

1animal1 · Aug 20, 2015

The carpets are staying down for now and until then i'm really not able to get to the main (assumed) 22mm manifold going through the floor. Also because some of it is in the hallway which has new laminate laid by the previous owner. I'll get around to it as i really don't like this small bore stuff - it's a massive PITA when refilling the rads, they take ages! My old 5 (4 very large) sealed system took less than 15 minutes to refill, this 13 rad vented system took me 2 hours not including purging the pump which had air trapped in the cylinder side - school boy error setting that side going first when restarting i imagine :behead:

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