Hydrogen the future ???????

[king of pipes]

In this month's Gas engineer chaps it's gonna happen probably sooner than we all think ? anyone doing their updates at the training centre surely they must be in the know as we will all have to retrain have a good day . Kop

 

[centralheatking]

In this month's Gas engineer chaps it's gonna happen probably sooner than we all think ? anyone doing their updates at the training centre surely they must be in the know as we will all have to retrain have a good day . Kop

Yes its happening all over Europe led by the 'Orange Boys' in Netherlands. I understand that the natural gas distribution network will carry Hydrogen enhanced Natural Gas. Systems off the network will be powered by pure Hydrogen. The logic is sound in that renewable energy when its is not needed
will be utilised to produce 'free' hydrogen which will be stored for use this in effect is an efficient green battery which does not need scrapping and maintains its efficiency unlike conventional batteries. The big fight will be between direct use electricity and H2. centralheatking

 

[snowhead]

This will be many years away yet.
They've got small scale then large scale testing to sort out.

There's far too many other things to sort out yet.
It's fine having Hydrogen ready boilers but come the day the 20% is introduced ALL other appliances, cookers, fires etc would also have to be ready.
The usual Million dollar question, Who's going to pay for replacing all the other appliances, fires cookers etc?

And on that same (section of ) gasnetwork they'll be hundreds if not thousands of different commercial burners that will have to have been replaced.

It's not going to be as simple as Town to Natural, burners then were holes in cast iron, nowadays are far more complex and would need a redesign, just as they have done for the Boiler.
Presumably manufactures are also working on this.

What about flue gas analysers and gas leak sniffers, they'll all want replacing or firmware updates.
I doubt they'll be too much retaining to do, it's a gas and it burns.

 

[centralheatking]

First Hydrogen powered train in Germany just launched, there is one on test in UK, perhaps this decade might be called 'The Hydrogen Years'. The Orange Boys have set up a hydrogen point at a vehicle filling station. centralheatking Keele University has introduced an area H2 Ng gas network supplying campus wide domestic
appliances.

 

[hammers4spanner]

Wont hydrogen be more damaging to the atmosphere with all the extra watsr vapour?

 

[centralheatking]

Wont hydrogen be more damaging to the atmosphere with all the extra watsr vapour?

I dont think North Africa or Australia are going to object, hydrogen is the most plentiful gas in the atmosphere. chking

 

[oz-plumber]

I reckon 20 years ago, I went to a seminar - back when you had to pay for the privilege - ( how times change ).
Anyway, Hydrogen was apparently going to be introduced in the the gas supply to @ 10% with no effects on existing appliances.

Still waiting for it to happen, amongst everything else 'Green' that was brought up at the conference.

 

[centralheatking]

I reckon 20 years ago, I went to a seminar - back when you had to pay for the privilege - ( how times change ).
Anyway, Hydrogen was apparently going to be introduced in the the gas supply to @ 10% with no effects on existing appliances.

Still waiting for it to happen, amongst everything else 'Green' that was brought up at the conference.

Its the usual story. Innovation is part of the story, timing is the other. History is littered with broken inventors etc. Great Idea wrong time. Commercial forces are conspiring over Hydrogen, some big
players ...Peel Ports, Ineos Chlor eg. the battle will be between electricity and hydrogen. chking

 

[SimonG]

How do they generate hydrogen in bulk?

Is it back to the old chemistry lesson splitting water into oxygen and hydrogen? If so how we producing the electric, same with all the electric cars and Van's.

I remember a few years back a big to do that within 20 years we wont be able to produce enough electricity to match our needs. They were saying we should have been building more power plants to be able to cope. Seen a reduction if anything.

 

[centralheatking]

How do they generate hydrogen in bulk?

Is it back to the old chemistry lesson splitting water into oxygen and hydrogen? If so how we producing the electric, same with all the electric cars and Van's.

I remember a few years back a big to do that within 20 years we wont be able to produce enough electricity to match our needs. They were saying we should have been building more power plants to be able to cope. Seen a reduction if anything.

The logic is that renewables are not controllable relative to use. So excess wind and solar electricity especially wind at night will be used to produce hydrogen which is a better alternative to batteries. The stored h2 can then packaged like propane or mixed with NG and fed out through the gas grid. So Peel Ports have put up loads of twirly gigs to produce electricity for Ineos Chlor at Runcorn to produce H2 for pipeline distribution in various concentrations. centralheatking I understand there is a reluctance by the Electricity grid to upgrade the network in isolated areas where wind turbines etc, a usually sited.

 

[oz-plumber]

The corporations that own the power aren't going to do anything to reduce their profits.

At the same conference I went to, LED's were going to be installed in all street lighting and traffic lights - to reduce power use by ( something like ) 75%.
That hasn't happened either, but I have taken note there are quite a few LED traffic lights being installed

 

[centralheatking]

The corporations that own the power aren't going to do anything to reduce their profits.

At the same conference I went to, LED's were going to be installed in all street lighting and traffic lights - to reduce power use by ( something like ) 75%.
That hasn't happened either, but I have taken note there are quite a few LED traffic lights being installed

LED street lights everywhere in Sefton MBC

 

[snowhead]

Same here, where I live all street lights and road signs went LED around 5 years ago , including street furniture.
Traffic lights followed on after.
The street lighting was done by SSE. an Energy supplier, who also did many other towns and cities.

Street lights weren't just converted, quite a few were repositioned to give better coverage with less lamps.
Payback for the costs was 5 years, including saved costs on maintenance.

 

[SimonG]

99% of our street lights were converted 2 to 3 years ago. They're horrendous, only seem to give out light directly underneath them.

 

[centralheatking]

99% of our street lights were converted 2 to 3 years ago. They're horrendous, only seem to give out light directly underneath them.

Thats the idea why light up anywhere else, loads of ours shutdown after midnight till 4 am why not.
chking

 

[hammers4spanner]

I dont think North Africa or Australia are going to object, hydrogen is the most plentiful gas in the atmosphere. chking

Unfortunately it doesnt work like that

 

[king of pipes]

Its going to happen maybe not in our working life but the design is being worked on and the government are making plans . Kop

 

[townfanjon]

Oh eck , remember the Hindenburg .

 

[ShaunCorbs]

Oh eck , remember the Hindenburg .

imagine finding a drop on the internal pipe work, I think were going to have to move to zero tolerance (zero drop)

 

[SimonG]

I thought the atmosphere was Nitrogen?

 

[centralheatking]

imagine finding a drop on the internal pipe work, I think were going to have to move to zero tolerance (zero drop)

We used to do medi gas in hospitals and labs. One of them had a ticket for hydrogen and the test was 100%. I have looked at current regs but they only seem to relate to pure h2. The plan for on grid supply is for h2 enhanced nat gas around 5% .
I understand pure h2 is for off grid installation. The big trick is to produce H2 from renewables when they are not needed eg wind blowing at night, solar in summer then it becomes an environmentally sound battery it’s difficult to store electricity in the same way. Centralheatking

 

[hammers4spanner]

Its going to happen maybe not in our working life but the design is being worked on and the government are making plans . Kop

Rumour has it the fan went pop , along wwith the pump and it sprang a leak

 

[king of pipes]

Rumour has it the fan went pop , along wwith the pump and it sprang a leak

Well mate it is a Worcester . 😂

 

[quality]

I been working at a Biogas site this week which put 30 cubic meter per hour straight into the grid so gas as we know will be around for a long time yet and I am a heat pump preference type but gas is still the main man.

 

[Pssst]

Hydrogen is already being blended and supplied into the gas network here in the UK in limited volume and for experimental purposes.

HyDeploy hydrogen project reaching 20% blend | Cadent

cadentgas.com