Ideal Standard 55cm basin with semi ped

[Laurence]

Hello All,

I recently purchased the above basin with semi pedistal, I have already fitted the bath and the toilet (although toilet has to be changed because of manufacturing error)
I am not a professional plumber, more of a competent DIYer, I am confused by the following:
1. Why are the securing holes in the basin drilled at an angle? (about 45 degrees)
2. The basin weighs 17.5kg empty, will two M8 (biggest you can fit) bolts really hold it securely and safely to the wall? (solid brick)
3. Which to fit first, basin or pedistal?
4. Any hints on how to get the angle right for the raw plugs?

By the way, if anyone is fitting the Jasper Morrison Ideal Standard range of toilets there is a known fault. It is a casting fault which only shows up when you flush the unit. Water oozes out of the back of the pan through a casting hole. This does not show up when you check for waste leaks using just a bucket of water!
I spent hours thinking that I had a leak from the waste fittings!!!

best regards...........laurence

 

[Bernie2]

Hmm!

Normal way is to assemble basin and ped, try in position and mark through the basin holes onto the wall.

Drilling the holes at the right angle is always a bit of fun. I usually start off going straight then angling down bit by bit as I drill. But that is after years of doing it.

A number 2" (50mm) -10 (5) brass screw usually fits. Brown plugs and suitable bit. Put a bit of petroleum jelly on the screw threads before screwing, makes them easier to screw in. Don't force them in, the heads snap or turn off.

Screw them in without the basin being there first to make sure they go in okay, remove screws, then put basin and ped in place and slowly screw them to the wall. If your a bit out on the holes and its making the basin ride up or down try the next screw gauge down to give yourself some movement.

When you have got it so you like it, undo the screws and ease the basin forward, butter the back with a bit of good quality silicon and then screw to final position.

Don't forget to put a bedding joint on the base of the ped and between the basin and ped. Plumbers mait is usually okay, but you can use other stuff like silicon if you want.

What the object is, is to stop china ware grating on china ware and to stop the ped from grating on a hard floor. It also probably helps to avoid vibration in the floor rising up the ped and cracking it, as well as acting like a bit of a cushion for impact damage by dropping something in the basin.

You can feel it when you fit it, if the basin is going in okay.
Its a kind of tension that builds up in the china and you can feel it ready to "ping" if you tighten anymore. Just don't force anything. If it seems a bit loose, loosen and use a bit more silicon bed then tighten but don't do a Superman tighten job.

And sometimes throw your level away, eye it in. Its pointless having a lovely tiled bathroom if the basin looks out of square. I worked with a Plumber years ago who said he never used a level on china ware. He said the moulds they where made in where to inexact.

And don't forget brick layers think baths of any sort can be bent to fit walls. And batter is something that you do to walls to give them character

Don't forget to screw the ped down as well.

If your worried about it pulling away from the wall and its a de luxe job. Try bedding it back with Dow Corning. I've been on jobs where we have had wall hung basins to take down. We've removed all the supporting brackets and virtually had to use a big hammer to get them off the wall when they have been hung with that stuff.

In the old days we used putty and paint.

Hope this helps.

 

[Laurence]

Thanks Bernie,
Thats a big help, but I have a semi ped, so there is no floor fixing and no way that I can fix them together,

best regards............Laurence

 

[Bernie2]

Hi Laurence,

Do you have the Ideal Standard Alto fixing set E0070?

Obviously the washbasin fits on the wall first then the trap and waste pipe with the semi ped acting more as a cover than a support. The Ideal Standard drawings don't really show you much. And like yourself I would be more afraid of the basin lugs snapping off more than anything.

In that case, if you have them follow the makers fitting instructions to the letter, then you can claim if it breaks after you have fitted it.

Actually china ware is often far stronger than it looks.

Also as another slightly unrelated tip. When you screw the semi ped on you can get screw caps, but if you can't, then make sure the screw slots are vertical, most brass screws are slotted not Posi or Phillips.
It helps any condensation to run off the screw head.

I'd wait on a bit to see if anybody else has put one in that is the same, they will probably give you a better idea than I can.

Similar types to that one require exact marking and measuring, which as you have probably found out takes ages to do properly.

You've got to put all your first fix in first.

Good fortune!

 

[stevetheplumber]

not familiar with this model but in general the basin is fixed to wall using fischer bolts which are basicly a double ended screw/bolt these are the best fixings around if you have a good wall to fix to youll have two oval holes on the rear of basin if its these
get the measurement for the hole centers and how far from top of basin mark your center line on the wall then mark 800 minus the distance fom top of basin this is the hieght of the fixings then scribe a line and mark from center the distance apart the holes are in basin
use the right sized drill , usually embossed on the plastic wall plug ,drill straight and level to a depth about 5 mm deeper then the length of the plug
screw in bolts till the stop
hang basin on studs and tighten the spacers washers and nuts and roberts your mothers brother
theres various ways semi peds are fixed most hang from basin some have brackets some wires
to mark thru holes you need to slim your pencil down or in true plubers style get the mate toi hold in place and drill thru with a small drill take down and redrill with suitable size which will get the angle

 

[Bernie2]

Yes that's about right. I've done similar, fixed in a similar way but not the Alto. If I recall I thought the basin would snap then, but it never.

The wall has got to be good though and as said if you haven't got the official fixing kit, then Fischer fixings for washbasins are good.

 

[Laurence]

Thanks for all your help Steve & Bernie, it is greatly appreciated. I actually have the Fischer bolts and they look pretty similar to the "official kit" from Ideal Standard.
The toilet actually came with Fischer fixings supplied.

Thanks again..........Best regards..........Laurence

 

[williamson5971]

Yes there was a manufacturing fault with the Morrison pan, however a small amount got into the market, with all identified being replaced promptly.

If you are installing a basin on a semi pedestal you need to use the ‘rag-bolts’ and not the wall fixing screw holes. The latter are there if you’re mounting the basin on a full floor pedestal. Simply hold the piece to the wall with the weight being carried by the pedestal. When it’s a semi ped you need to securely mount the basin on the wall using ‘rag-bolts’. For this application we form large elliptical holes in the back of the basin – and these are definitely not at 45 degrees

If you have any questions regarding fitting Ideal Standard products please contact our cusomer care team on 01482 346461 who can advise appropriately.

Jenny Williamson, Ideal Standard

 

[Laurence]

Thank you Jenny,

best regards.........Laurence