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Datanaut

My housing association says that the "regulations" require that a radiator be fitted in the kitchen as the "regulations" (they can't tell me which regulations) say that a radiator HAS to be fitted in every room.

True or False?


I have looked at the Communities and Localgovernment Building Regulations 2000 as amended 2006. Specifically the Domestic Heating Compliance Guide with approved documents L1A: New Dwellings and L1B Existing Dwellings but can find only one reference 'radiator'.

Thank's in advance for the answer I'm expect to receive from the people in the know ;-)
 
Yes EVERY room. What defines if a enclosed space is a room I don't thinks we should explore at this time. Toilet comes to mind but kitchen is what I'm really interested in. Thanks :)
 
Because they are quoting the "regulations" and I don't believe them. In fact the landlord is quoting several "regulations" about several issues. Electrical, Health and Safety and no doubt anti terrorism will be next, so as not to do what they SHOUT about doing in all their glossy brochures. Each time I knock one down they come up with another, this is just the latest. I can see the contract plumber, electrician, carpenter rolling their eyes as the I'm told that it's not out fault we can't do (fill in blank) because of the "regulations".
 
fit another heat source ie. electric heater and then theres no need for a radiator.

you will probably find they leave themselves open if they do not provide a heat source in a living space, so provide one. kick space heater or over door heater would be suitable .
 
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I don't know many places with a rad in the kitchen! No space in most!

As has been suggested already, fit a kick board heater - cheap and easy.
 
I thought that most housing associations work to the "decent homes" standard. The detailed guidance on heating copied below - I can't see any reference to a radiator in every room. It says "two or more".

I would ask them to supply you with a copy of the regulations to which they are referring.

Source

Criterion d: It provides a reasonable degree of thermal comfort
5.23 The revised definition requires a dwelling to have both efficient heating; and effective
insulation. Efficient heating is defined as any gas or oil programmable central heating; or
l electric storage heaters; or
l warm air systems; or
l underfloor systems; or
l programmable LPG/solid fuel central heating; or
l similarly efficient heating systems which are developed in the future.
5.24 The primary heating system must have a distribution system sufficient to provide heat
to two or more rooms of the home. There may be storage heaters in two or more
rooms, or other heaters that use the same fuel in two or more rooms. Even if the
central heating system covers most of the house making a dwelling decent, under the
HHSRS a landlord must be sure that the home is warm enough for the occupant.
5.25 Heating sources which provide less energy efficient options fail the Decent Homes
standard. Programmable heating is where the timing and the temperature of the heating
can be controlled by the occupants. However this is not a requirement in supported
housing or housing for older persons where it is necessary for health and safety reasons
for landlords to ensure adequate levels of heating are maintained.
5.26 Because of the differences in efficiency between gas/oil heating systems and the other
heating systems listed, the level of insulation that is appropriate also differs:
l For dwellings with gas/oil programmable heating, cavity wall insulation (if there are
cavity walls that can be insulated effectively) or at least 50mm loft insulation (if there
is loft space) is an effective package of insulation; and
l For dwellings heated by electric storage heaters/LPG/programmable solid fuel central
heating a higher specification of insulation is required: at least 200mm of loft
insulation (if there is a loft) and cavity wall insulation (if there are cavity walls that
can be insulated effectively).
5.27 A SAP rating of less than 35 (using the 2001 SAP methodology) has been established
as a proxy for the likely presence of a Category 1 hazard from excess cold. From April
2007, local authorities will report energy efficiency using the new 2005 methodology5.
5.28 Loft insulation thickness of 50mm is a minimum designed to trigger action on the worst
housing. Where insulation is being fitted, landlords should take the opportunity to
improve the energy efficiency and install insulation to a much greater depth.
 
Well done Ray. Just what I've been looking for. And I see you have supplied a source :) Thank you VERY much.
 
it dont matter whats written in decent homes guidelines if the HA policy is to fit a heat source then its there choice as the landlord.
 
There is a difference between policy, guidelines and regulations. If the housing association have a policy or even a preference to fit a radiator in every room I'm fine with that.

What I'm not fine with is housing officers telling me it's the "regulations" or making up housing policy on the hoof for their convenience to the detriment of the tenant. It makes me question their integrity and doubt their competence.

My housing association own report on the fitting of new kitchens to meet the decent homes standard shows that over 25% of tenants are unhappy with their new kitchens. Would you engage a plumber who makes up "regulations" and has 25% customer dissatisfaction. I think not.
 
Its more likely not knowing the exact regulations thats the problem. They probably know that it has to have a radiator because the problem has come up before in the past but they dont know where this comes from so have given a broad reason to save face.

was it a heating engineer you spoke to or a general member of the works management team?

No shame in not knowing the exact written down regulation but they should tell you the truth and say they dont know the exact reg as there are hundreds of them written down in reference books but will find it out and relay the information to you. 9 times out of 10 there answers are probably not questioned, so may get defensive about being questioned. Thats not your problem of course.

even experienced tradesmen cant quote alot of regs off the top of there head, they may know the correct answer to a question but would have to actually research the books to give you a quoted regulation. There is too much written information written in a legal language for anybody to be able to do this in realilty. Same in any job or walk of life.

Did the report detail what the tennants was unhappy about? workmanship? quality of materials? management of work? being woken up early? not liking the colour of the worktops? id take undetailed roeports with a pinch of salt.
 
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The clue is in the first line (Criterion d: It provides a reasonable degree of thermal comfort) so if no heater in kitchen how can you provide thermal comfort? this is what they will say


 
The report is 55 pages. Key findings:
Score out of 10
Pre work info 7.7
Resident liaison 7.7
Safety 6.7
Cleanliness 7.7
Time 7.5
Consideration 7.7
Quality 8.3
Overall 7.6

As I have said be it regulations, guide lines, policy or even preference to fit a radiator in my very small I'm fine with. I'll just remove it, store it and cap it off the feeds.

I don't intend to be one of the 25% who is unhappy with their new kitchen so challenging the housing association at this stage will hopefully mean that I will get a better service than the average tenant/customer.

Thank you to ever one for their input.
 
If the HA want to fit one then they will, after all it's their house and who knows how long you will be there. 6 months down the line a new tennant will be complaining that there isn't a rad.

Just turn it off and leave it. Can't see what the issue is.
 
LST rad needed then.

the customer is always right of course, the customer in this instance is the HA and not the tennant. Not that any of there tennants will agree :).... politics can be a mindfield. lol
 
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