Is gas boiler burner pressure and operating pressure the same thing?

[Krisha1987]

Hi

I was hoping to get some advice from a gas safe engineer who is used to doing landlord checks please.

I have a boiler (condensing boiler used for gas central heating only and not for hot water which is by electric immersion) and the last landlord check engineer said it was not safe to use because he could not access the boiler to check the burner pressure. It is in a small under cupboard location that means you cupboards need dismantling if I want to get proper access, however there is limited access which has been sufficient for the landlord check in the past.

Is burner pressure the same as operating pressure? When I look at old gas certificates there are recorded operating pressures and it has always been recorded "safe". I am just wondering why he has engineer his time said it was not safe stating unable to test burner pressure as the reason (this has not been raised as an issue before).

Many thanks if someone can clarify if burner pressure and operating pressure are the same

 

[ShaunCorbs]

No there totally different and burner pressure is normally a lot lower

Any chance of a pic of the boiler and said cupboard ?

 

[Last Plumber]

Hi

I was hoping to get some advice from a gas safe engineer who is used to doing landlord checks please.

I have a boiler (condensing boiler used for gas central heating only and not for hot water which is by electric immersion) and the last landlord check engineer said it was not safe to use because he could not access the boiler to check the burner pressure. It is in a small under cupboard location that means you cupboards need dismantling if I want to get proper access, however there is limited access which has been sufficient for the landlord check in the past.

Is burner pressure the same as operating pressure? When I look at old gas certificates there are recorded operating pressures and it has always been recorded "safe". I am just wondering why he has engineer his time said it was not safe stating unable to test burner pressure as the reason (this has not been raised as an issue before).

Many thanks if someone can clarify if burner pressure and operating pressure are the same

Which Boiler is it?
Some earlier condensing Boilers still had a Burner pressure reading but modern 'A' rated versions don't tend to do.

I personally would want to take a Working pressure reading at the appliance along with the same at the meter. ( Burner pressure too if it's possible).

This is necessary because it will give important information about the appliances Gas supply. You can Gas rate the appliance at the Meter but that only tells you the volume of Gas the appliance is using.

In my opinion, you need to access an appliance properly to carry out a safety check.

 

[Gotcha]

He wasnt willing to get to it. If its not straight forward, a lot of engineers will be on their way out, due to lazyness or being over their head with jobs. One guy slapped the warning label on a boiler because supply pipe was 15mm, he was called in to fix it actually. Supply pipe was 22mm in fact, and only reduced to 15 on the last 20cm of pipe because the gas connection on the boiler was 15mm. I got the boiler working within 20 minutes.
I dont even care about burner pressure. Gas rate at the meter is enough, only dig deeper is gas rate gives an input rating thats off by a lot than whats supposed to be.

 

[Krisha1987]

Very interesting responses, thanks for your help.

I have attached pics but the boiler is located under a fixed worktop so it isn't possible to service. It is possible to get an operating pressure as I have seen this recorded on the gas cert though.

So having looked at my 2 previous reports in the "is appliance safe to use?" one says NA (due to access unable to fully assess he wrote) and teach other says yes but with the same note. The 3rd and most recent gas very says no (not safe) based on the fact that he cannot assess burner pressure due to location. So opinions clearly differ. He issued at risk warning for this as unable to assess but did not turn off supply.

If the pics upload then you can see it is very old space saver glowworm mk 2 condensing boiler with pilot light always on and about 20-30 years old. There is no reason for me to change (if it ain't broke don't fix it) as works fine and the saving would be minimal (the flat based in London stays warm throughout the year and this boiler is only for the GCH not the water). The tenants barely use it.

Obviously I don't want to be a rogue landlord with a dodgy boiler but I don't think you can officially say something is not safe if you haven't proved it is not safe so I would wholly disagree with the last opinion. I won't be knocking down the cupboard purely to assess burner pressure, seems overkill.

However I do want to know what is the worst that can happen if the burner pressure is high/low? I am pretty sure it won't explode and I don't care if it breaks as I'll then replace it with a modern one. Why is it unsafe exactly? I am not asking the person who did it because he is probably biased so after some opinions by other gas cert engineers.

Thanks

Krisha

 

[Krisha1987]

Annoyingly noted some autocorrect typos

*teach - the
*very - cert(ificate)

 

[ShaunCorbs]

I wouldn't pass it, if I can't get the cover off how do I know it's burning correctly and nothing on the burner etc

 

[Krisha1987]

I wouldn't pass it, if I can't get the cover off how do I know it's burning correctly and nothing on the burner etc

Thanks. To clarify it is actually possible to take the cover off and look at that. Specifically he put unable to check the burner pressure as the reason it is "not safe" but he hasn't proved there is something wrong with the burner pressure is my point. Do you know why it is such a safety issue? What happens if it is too high or low? As in what is the worst that can happen (given I don't really mind if it breaks as I would be happy to replace it if broken but it has worked fine with no issues for 20 years and some rather simple boilers just last ages working fine).

 

[townfanjon]

If its the engineers first visit and hes no doubt already quoted a price for the job and cant get the case off , I am not supprised he isnt happy I would not be happy either .
The enginer needs to talk to the landlord and be able to charge more to cover the extra time to do the job .

 

[ShaunCorbs]

How much did he charge krisha?

 

[Krisha1987]

How much did he charge krisha?

The annual gas check is free with an insurance policy I use.
The burner pressure was not mentioned as an issue in the past so I'm just not sure why he has made a point of it now and what the safety concern with not being able to check the burner pressure is? I may need to start a new forum instead but do you know what the burner pressure safety concern is? Is he saying that if it is too high/too low something terrible can happen or is it that is can just break down, because if it the latter I don't mind.

 

[ShaunCorbs]

The annual gas check is free with an insurance policy I use.
The burner pressure was not mentioned as an issue in the past so I'm just not sure why he has made a point of it now and what the safety concern with not being able to check the burner pressure is? I may need to start a new forum instead but do you know what the burner pressure safety concern is? Is he saying that if it is too high/too low something terrible can happen or is it that is can just break down, because if it the latter I don't mind.

Will be cut down to £20-30 then

And it's more of an issue if it's over as you could have flame lift needs to be checked

 

[Harvest Fields]

Not read back through the posts but Looks like an old Potterton. Need to check it hasn't got A/C inside it!

 

[ShaunCorbs]

Not read back through the posts but Looks like an old Potterton. Need to check it hasn't got A/C inside it!

Ab and looks like an old space saver

 

[Harvest Fields]

Ab and looks like an old space saver

Sorry habit of saying asbestos content and you could be right

 

[Last Plumber]

If the pics upload then you can see it is very old space saver glowworm mk 2 condensing boiler

It is not a condensing Boiler. It's the third Balanced flue space saver that Glow worm made. Third case anyway.

If I was checking that Boiler for safety, I would want to get the case off, check the case seal which will no doubt need replacing, test Burner pressure, gas rate, working pressure, look at burner and flue internally.

If you don't want a safety check, you just want a piece of paper 'saying' it's safe, there are plenty of muppets about who will put their name to one!

 

[Last Plumber]

The burner pressure was not mentioned as an issue in the past so I'm just not sure why he has made a point of it now and what the safety concern with not being able to check the burner pressure is?

Testing the BP will tell you if the Multi-functional gas valve governor is working properly. You could do a gas rate test to tell you how much Gas the Boiler is using and that would give an indication of course but your Boiler has an atmospheric Burner and they were range rated so we always did BP and gas rate in conjunction with each other.
I can't say that a major indecent would occur through not testing it but as I say above, I would want to do those checks in order to put my name to it.

 

[TonyC]

What your previous certificates say is irrelevant. It sounds like the engineer was unable to carry out the boiler inspection and testing needed for the landlord gas safety due to its location and accessibility. This means the engineer is unable to say it is safe.

 

[masons]

The annual gas check is free with an insurance policy I use.

any insurance company ( except if contracted out ) would AR that boiler because BP can't be checked or access is not to MI's is company policy

Obviously I don't want to be a rogue landlord with a dodgy boiler but I don't think you can officially say something is not safe if you haven't proved it is not safe so I would wholly disagree with the last opinion

well it has been proved unsafe because it has that yellow sticker on the front so as you say change the boiler because its the tenants who are suffering not you . it seems your more interested in your pockets than your tenants safety or suffering because of no heating , so what was it you said about a dodgy landlord .

so the answer to your plight ; its either ripping out some cabinets / worktop or a new boiler