Is my neighbours soil/waste pipe allowed to be over my driveway

[03CM83]

Hi, Im hoping someone could give me some advice please. I'm new to this site so please forgive me if I'm posting incorrectly or in the wrong place. I am looking for advice on my neighbours bathroom waste pipe. I'll try to explain this as best as I can. Our neighbours house is set forward from ours, but is connected at the side to the full length of our driveway. They have their bathroom in the front of the house which I believe they moved when they built an attic conversion years ago, however this means that their bathroom waste pipe, which carries their toilet waste, runs along the side of their house, raised up right over our driveway and then runs the full length of their house towards the back of our driveway and over the boundary wall in to their garden. Our house goes at an angle so the driveway narrows at the back meaning that to enter our garden we are literally right up against the pipe when entering the garden through the very narrow gate. We have never been comfortable with the way it's been done as not only is it completely unsightly, we constantly hear the water flowing from it and any problems with that pipe leaking means we could end up with excrement over our land and our cars or guests cars. This has been a major concern over recent months as we have noticed puddles of water at times and when we had the very cold weather at the start of the year, one day we noticed long icicles hanging from the pipes indicating that there is possibly a leak there. They were informed but he checked it and saw no major problems so it has been left, even though water still gathers on dry days. Now we are looking at the possibility of a structure being built to the side of the house and they have used the pipe as a reason to contest against us building as they need access to it to maintain it, however there would be no problem with access regardless of what we want to do as we have purposely left space on plans to allow them access anyway. I must note that this pipe was there before we bought the house however I strongly believe this should never have been put over our land the way it has to begin with. I have never seen a house with a waste pipe that goes over someone else's land/property like this before. I cant understand how this is allowed from a health and safety point of view, should the pipe fail/leak in any way, not to mention the potential to damage cars. So I'm wondering if anyone has any knowledge on this sort of situation, and if anyone can tell me if it's wrong that this pipe is where it is or is it allowed? Sorry if theres anything that doesnt make sense, its not an easy set up to explain.
Thank you in advance for any advice.

 

[exedon2]

Some clear pictures of the problem pipework would be useful.

 

[SimonG]

Aye, a picture paints a thousand words.

 

[03CM83]

Some clear pictures of the problem pipework would be useful.

Hi yes i'm trying to get some, unfortunately we have awful weather today, so i only have one taken from by the front door, not one showing the full driveway. I have attached it to this reply. If the heavy rain does stop i will go out and try and take another showing the full length. This photo does give an idea how it looks. It comes down at an angle towards the back and the in to their garden.

 

[03CM83]

Aye, a picture paints a thousand words.

Aye, a picture paints a thousand words.

Have attached one now, i need to get more when the rain eases a bit

 

[Chuck]

Hi, Im hoping someone could give me some advice please. I'm new to this site so please forgive me if I'm posting incorrectly or in the wrong place.

Whether a drain is leaking or not is easily established with a pressure test.

Just because your neighbour has objected doesn't mean that their objection is valid. Talk to your planning officer. If you are polite and ask them for help rather than trying to lay down the law you'll find them very helpful.

The rest of your question is a matter for a solicitor or whoever conveyanced your house. This situation should never have been allowed to develop in the first place and sorting it out will need someone who knows about easements, boundary disputes, etc.

 

[SimonG]

Should have dug new underground drains.

 

[03CM83]

Whether a drain is leaking or not is easily established with a pressure test.

Just because your neighbour has objected doesn't mean that their objection is valid. Talk to your planning officer. If you are polite and ask them for help rather than trying to lay down the law you'll find them very helpful.

The rest of your question is a matter for a solicitor or whoever conveyanced your house. This situation should never have been allowed to develop in the first place and sorting it out will need someone who knows about easements, boundary disputes, etc.

Hi, thank you for reply. The planning part i'm not too worried about as that will all be sorted out as the process goes along. We've just always questioned how this was allowed even before any planning was put in and have wanted to find out our rights with it. Obviously if it turns out to be a factor in stopping the planning going ahead, if it shouldn't be there it would be annoying for that to end up with us being refused approval. I understand in some cases 2 houses can have their waste pipes go to the same drain, but in this case our houses are not connected and yet the pipe is over our land. The drive way already existed before the pipe was put in so seems strange how it was allowed. Unfortunately as the work was done before we bought our house we have no idea of how the situation went when it was put in. I will see about contacting a solicitor regarding the issue. I'm unsure how i will convince the neighbours to do a pressure test on the pipe as they are avoiding us since putting in planning objection lol

 

[snowhead]

Normally the foundations of a house will extend 150mm or 6" away from the wall built on them and the edge of the the foundation would also normally indicate the boundary.
So the neighbours pipe could be within their boundary.

It wasn't the case in older properties as the foundation was only the width of the wall above it.

You will almost certainly need a Party Wall agreement, which the neighbour would need to agree to, as you will be excavating within 3 mtrs of their foundations and most likely below

 

[03CM83]

Should have dug new underground drains.

This is what we think too, its not a nice sight to have right outside our front window

 

[03CM83]

Normally the foundations of a house will extend 150mm or 6" away from the wall built on them and the edge of the the foundation would also normally indicate the boundary.
So the neighbours pipe could be within their boundary.

It wasn't the case in older properties as the foundation was only the width of the wall above it.

You will almost certainly need a Party Wall agreement, which the neighbour would need to agree to, as you will be excavating within 3 mtrs of their foundations and most likely below

Normally the foundations of a house will extend 150mm or 6" away from the wall built on them and the edge of the the foundation would also normally indicate the boundary.
So the neighbours pipe could be within their boundary.

It wasn't the case in older properties as the foundation was only the width of the wall above it.

You will almost certainly need a Party Wall agreement, which the neighbour would need to agree to, as you will be excavating within 3 mtrs of their foundations and most likely below

Hi thank you for reply. The pipe is over the boundary line as the boundary line in this case is the join of our drive and the wall of their house. Its a very strange layout on all the houses on this street unfortunately.
The side structure may possibly only be conservatory panels so we've been told there shouldn't be a need for any party wall agreement.
As mentioned in previous comment, i'm not too worried about it in regards to the possible new structure, its more a general concern about possible leakage and just whether anyone agrees if it should be there or not. Cars are parked underneath daily and my son plays on the driveway too. Really just trying to find out if we are right in seeing it as being incorrectly placed.
I'm so grateful for all advice and comments so far

 

[king of pipes]

I can't see you getting any where with this to be honest I agree it's unsightly but it's attached to their property and really theres no alternative for them as you own the driveway, when the conversion was done it should have been registered with building control and signed off on completion ? Especially as it's a bathroom and the space has changed its use, in wet weather and or cold freezing conditions it's not unusual to see drips coming off external pipework it doesn't necessarily mean there's any leakage from it , what are you hoping to achieve you could quite easily fall out with your neighbors if you start making demands ?? . Regards kop

 

[WC1]

Sounds like you're both being a bit unreasonable. Try not to let the dispute blow up.

 

[snowhead]

If I was in this position I'd offer to replace all the pipework shown at my own cost, by dropping vertically to the ground, going underground and back into the neighbours property, with suitable access points where required.

They then have very little to maintain (and complain about) and what is there will be new and watertight so shouldn't leak.
There could be a flaw in my plan if the neighbours existing undergound drain on their side doesn't have enough fall to allow the newly located pipe to join onto it.

As above somewhere in a post, just because they've complained doesn't mean they'll succeed.

 

[03CM83]

I can't see you getting any where with this to be honest I agree it's unsightly but it's attached to their property and really there no alternative for them as you own the driveway, when the conversion was done it should have been registered with building control and signed off on completion ? Especially as it's a bathroom and the space has changed its use, in wet weather and or cold freezing conditions it's not unusual to see drips coming off external pipework it doesn't necessarily mean there's any leakage from it , what are you hoping to achieve ?? . Regards kop

Hi, thank you for reply. Its not necessarily about trying to achieve anything, i'm not saying we are definitely planning to do anything about it. The reason i have asked this question is purely to find out if it should ever have been placed there, there are ways it could have been placed over their own land, they've done it this way to keep the rest of their property looking nice, as its more out of sight to them on our side. Even if the pipe isn't leaking now, there are plenty of things that can happen to a pipe and i'm sure anyone would feel concerned about a pipe carrying toilet waste sitting above their cars.
Also, although i'm not immediately concerned about their pipe preventing planning, as adequate space for maintenance has been left, i'm sure you could understand that if our planning was turned down because of that pipe, and it turned out the pipe shouldn't even be there, then that would be a bit unfair. Having spoke to someone i know who works in planning today i know that they wouldn't take in to account if the pipe should be there or not when they make their decision as its nothing to do with planning.
As i say i have only made this thread out of general curiosity to see if my thoughts that it shouldn't be there are correct as its something that always puzzled me. Its not to be vindictive or awkward or anything, i'm too shy and quiet for that haha

 

[03CM83]

Sounds like you're both being a bit unreasonable. Try not to let the dispute blow up.

We havent talked to them about the pipe? Its not been mentioned to anyone so no dispute and we havent been unreasonable as we havent mentioned anything to them. I think you may have misunderstood that. Its a general question as been concerns to leak recently and me just being sure or the pipe being allowed to be there. The only issue thats come up is them using it as an objection to prevent us building. Although this has annoyed me and my husband, we have not spoken to them regarding it yet and we are just taking the general steps with planning as im not out to cause arguments. We are doing everything through proper channels. We have had good relationship with the neighbours so its not a dispute at the moment.

 

[king of pipes]

Hi, thank you for reply. Its not necessarily about trying to achieve anything, i'm not saying we are definitely planning to do anything about it. The reason i have asked this question is purely to find out if it should ever have been placed there, there are ways it could have been placed over their own land, they've done it this way to keep the rest of their property looking nice, as its more out of sight to them on our side. Even if the pipe isn't leaking now, there are plenty of things that can happen to a pipe and i'm sure anyone would feel concerned about a pipe carrying toilet waste sitting above their cars.
Also, although i'm not immediately concerned about their pipe preventing planning, as adequate space for maintenance has been left, i'm sure you could understand that if our planning was turned down because of that pipe, and it turned out the pipe shouldn't even be there, then that would be a bit unfair. Having spoke to someone i know who works in planning today i know that they wouldn't take in to account if the pipe should be there or not when they make their decision as its nothing to do with planning.
As i say i have only made this thread out of general curiosity to see if my thoughts that it shouldn't be there are correct as its something that always puzzled me. Its not to be vindictive or awkward or anything, i'm too shy and quiet for that haha

Hhmmm I would continue with your planning application and see if its past? before making enquiries to the best way to proceed are you planning any drainage work down the driveway ?

 

[03CM83]

Hhmmm I would continue with your planning application and see if its past? before making enquiries to the best way to proceed are you planning any drainage work down the driveway ?

Yes that's the plan really, to just carry on with planning. I'm just trying to get all my facts together just incase so I can be prepared as I'm not going to pretend I know much about this stuff, but I want to know my facts should any issues arise.
I don't believe there will be any drainage added, the side section we are looking to add is more of a narrow storage room, to store for example my sons bike and similar items

 

[king of pipes]

Yes that's the plan really, to just carry on with planning. I'm just trying to get all my facts together just incase so I can be prepared as I'm not going to pretend I know much about this stuff, but I want to know my facts should any issues arise.
I don't believe there will be any drainage added, the side section we are looking to add is more of a narrow storage room, to store for example my sons bike and similar items

You may not even need full planning the rules were relaxed by the government in 2020 for people to extend their property strict rules still apply and you still need building regulations have a look at this site online . Kop

 

[Ric2013]

Unfortunately this sort of thing isn't that uncommon. Nice as it would be to have a boundary line and it be very clear, there is no reason a party wall cannot have a footing that extends beyond the actual boundary, and, if you consider a house the front wall of which forms the boundary with the local council (pavement), you'll see it's almost inevitable that the gutter will overhang. Which then leads to all this confusion as to where the legal boundary lies.

Had the neighbour been carrying out the work now, I think you'd probably have a very good case for preventing them as the pipe would be in your land; as the work predated your purchase, I'm convinced the legal presumption would be that the person you purchased from probably agreed to the encroachment, that you bought your property subject to this agreement being in place and that your neighbours have an implied easement allowing them to maintain this pipe. Hence, if you now want to revoke that easement, you'll need to find an approach that the neighbour is happy with, for example re-route it at your cost.

As far as the health and safety issue of a waste branch over a driveway is concerned, I don't agree there is one. Internal horizontal soil pipes are extremely common in hospitals, and internal soil stacks are found in the majority of modern houses, so I can't see how what is deemed acceptable (and in a hospital at that) internally would be deemed unacceptable externally, provided it is maintained. I'd suggest the existing pipe is well supported and has been installed with a certain attention to detail.

Perhaps a good wash down with hot water and washing-up liquid would make it much easier to identify any possible leak, and, as others have suggested, it could be pressure tested easily enough - perhaps you could agree to pay the cost of the plumber to test if the test finds no leak?

 

[WC1]

Sounds like you're both being a bit unreasonable. Try not to let the dispute blow up

We havent talked to them about the pipe? Its not been mentioned to anyone so no dispute and we havent been unreasonable as we havent mentioned anything to them. I think you may have misunderstood that. Its a general question as been concerns to leak recently and me just being sure or the pipe being allowed to be there. The only issue thats come up is them using it as an objection to prevent us building. Although this has annoyed me and my husband, we have not spoken to them regarding it yet and we are just taking the general steps with planning as im not out to cause arguments. We are doing everything through proper channels. We have had good relationship with the neighbours so its not a dispute at the moment.

As far as I can read, they are objecting to your extension and you are objecting to their pipe. Both the extension and the pipe seem fairly reasonable to me. I would go round and speak to them, taking a bottle of something or some flowers etc to start the conversation off with. Good luck.

 

[oz-plumber]

If the pipe is in you property, you have the right to have it removed at no expense to yourself.

Get the neighbours to prove that they had permission to install their waste pipe on your property.
There would be other options of running the drain, but this was the cheapest / easiest way of doing it.

Next thing the neighbours might do is claim a 1m section of your land as common property due to the drain and access to clean and maintain the drain.

 

[03CM83]

As far as I can read, they are objecting to your extension and you are objecting to their pipe. Both the extension and the pipe seem fairly reasonable to me. I would go round and speak to them, taking a bottle of something or some flowers etc to start the conversation off with. Good luck.

Hi, thank you for reply. They are objecting to the extension but we haven't actually said anything about pipe to them as of yet, there's been no issue with them regarding it so far as we haven't mentioned it to them. I just asked this question in case it should prevent us building, so that I know where I stand should discussions about it arise. I'm not intending on asking them to move it at this point. Plus they've objected to extension at the back for reasons that don't even affect them, basically being petty even after we have done loads for them over the years, which is very sad and upsetting, so no way will I be taking them flowers haha. However that's a whole separate issue not related to the pipe. I've really just asked about the pipe to prepare myself for any possible fall out or planning objection. For now we have just kept to ourselves and leaving everything to architect as we are not prepared to get in to confrontation over anything with them. I'm just the type of person who likes to know where I stand on issues before I go ahead making claims that may not be true 🙂

 

[king of pipes]

Tread carefully bide your time 🤞it will work in your favour

 

[03CM83]

If the pipe is in you property, you have the right to have it removed at no expense to yourself.

Get the neighbours to prove that they had permission to install their waste pipe on your property.
There would be other options of running the drain, but this was the cheapest / easiest way of doing it.

Next thing the neighbours might do is claim a 1m section of your land as common property due to the drain and access to clean and maintain the

You may not even need full planning the rules were relaxed by the government in 2020 for people to extend their property strict rules still apply and you still need building regulations have a look at this site online . Kop

We need full planning due to 2 storey work at the back, however you would be correct that technically that section could be built without permission, I hadn't thought of that. All building regs would certainly be followed as we have a very good and experienced architect, who is very strict to staying within guidelines thankfully.
Thank you so much for your help and comments so far