Issues with commercial gas meter in domestic property

[rick_x]

We moved into our house in October and the boiler needs replacing. We got quotes but were informed by the gas engineers that we have a commercial gas meter and this needs to be changed in order for them to do the work and to get the boiler guarantee. We contacted our energy supplier who have been less than helpful and sent out 2 sets of engineers to change it to a domestic one and on both occasions weren't qualified to do so and just left without doing anything. I spoke to EDF again and now they say our gas consumption is estimated to be 60kW and that after 64kW a domestic meter wouldn't handle the capacity. We have a 5 bed house and no gas appliances apart from the central heating. A gas fire is present but not in use and needs replacing. They are now saying we need to consider whether changing the meter is the right thing to do but equally no engineers are happy to install a new system boiler and unvented cylinder on this supply. If anyone could give some advice and clarity it'd be much appreciated, thanks.

 

[ShaunCorbs]

Can you take a pic of the gas meter ?

 

[Last Plumber]

We moved into our house in October and the boiler needs replacing. We got quotes but were informed by the gas engineers that we have a commercial gas meter and this needs to be changed in order for them to do the work and to get the boiler guarantee. We contacted our energy supplier who have been less than helpful and sent out 2 sets of engineers to change it to a domestic one and on both occasions weren't qualified to do so and just left without doing anything. I spoke to EDF again and now they say our gas consumption is estimated to be 60kW and that after 64kW a domestic meter wouldn't handle the capacity. We have a 5 bed house and no gas appliances apart from the central heating. A gas fire is present but not in use and needs replacing. They are now saying we need to consider whether changing the meter is the right thing to do but equally no engineers are happy to install a new system boiler and unvented cylinder on this supply. If anyone could give some advice and clarity it'd be much appreciated, thanks.

To work on a commercial installation you do need the right qualifications. Either have the meter changed for a 6 or 16 cubic meter one or ask an Engineer with commercial qualifications to do the work.
Some Engineers are qualified for both so it shouldn't be an issue.

I do have to ask, why is there a commercial meter in your property?
What size is it? (the meter).

 

[rick_x]

It's a 5 bed house but not a mansion certainly (5th is tiny)! I have no idea why it was installed in the first place, it was here when we moved in back in October. We have 17 radiators and a the boiler has been on the blink over the last few months so we're desperate to get it replaced with a new heating system but am now worried that getting it switched to domestic would cause even more problems.

 

[ShaunCorbs]

Looks like a imperial u16 so under domestic scope

 

[Last Plumber]

That is a U16 meter.

It falls within domestic scope of IGE/UP1B.

As long as the whole installation volume including that meter is less than 0.035 M3, the installation pipework is under 35mm and the outlet pressure is 21 mbar or less, a domestic Engineer can work on it.

 

[rick_x]

Thanks, so what would be the issue with boiler guarantees then? Doesn't seem to make sense but a few of them mentioned it.

 

[ShaunCorbs]

My guess they haven’t seen a meter that big and just assumed it’s commercial

 

[rick_x]

My guess they haven’t seen a meter that big and just assumed it’s commercial

That's a bit worrying when it comes to confidence in their knowledge!

 

[Last Plumber]

Thanks, so what would be the issue with boiler guarantees then? Doesn't seem to make sense but a few of them mentioned it.

There is no issue at all.
Maybe as Shaun said, they haven't seen one before?
Begs the question eh?

 

[rick_x]

Many thanks to all of you for such prompt and helpful advice. I think a whole new set of quotes are now needed but I'll have a little more confidence and knowledge behind me now.

Cheers

 

[Last Plumber]

Many thanks to all of you for such prompt and helpful advice. I think a whole new set of quotes are now needed but I'll have a little more confidence and knowledge behind me now.

Cheers

No problem at all.
Avoid the previous Engineers would be my advice.

 

[Last Plumber]

That's a bit worrying when it comes to confidence in their knowledge!

It is. They are quite likely qualified to work on your gas installation and Gas Safe registered too. Scary!

 

[snowhead]

That Imperial meter is badged as 565 cuft/hr.
That's 15.999 cu mtr /hr so under 16 as above posts.

When you contact engineers for quotes mention the meter is an Imperial U16, save them wasting yours and their time coming out to refuse to touch it.
And as above also test their knowledge and confidence.

It's be interesting to hear of a Smart Meter fitters reaction to the meter.

 

[rick_x]

Can you replace this with a smart version?

 

[ShaunCorbs]

There will be an updated version don’t know if it’s truly smart yet eg self reading

 

[Last Plumber]

Can you replace this with a smart version?

If you do not require a 16 cube meter, you could down grade to a 6?

The 16 or 6 is the number of cubic meters per hour that will pass through it safely and accurately.
If you know the gross input of your appliances you can work out what size meter you need.

A smaller meter will also help to stop you frightening away nervous gas installers lol.

 

[rick_x]

If you do not require a 16 cube meter, you could down grade to a 6?

The 16 or 6 is the number of cubic meters per hour that will pass through it safely and accurately.
If you know the gross input of your appliances you can work out what size meter you need.

A smaller meter will also help to stop you frightening away nervous gas installers lol.

Thanks, how would I work this out?

 

[ShaunCorbs]

Heat loss / boiler size u16 will do upto 170kw

u6 will do upto 64kw

approx

 

[Last Plumber]

Thanks, how would I work this out?

You can normally find the gas rate of an appliance in the manufacturers instructions.

Failing that you can work it out off the Gross heat input whether that be in Btu's/hr or Kw/hr.

If you don't have manufacturers instructions they will be online or there may be a visible data badge on the appliance.

I use a calculation from my head but it is round the houses and one I have used since God knows when. It is accurate but I dare say there are more modern ways even if they do get you to the same answer.

If you google Kw to M3/hr gas, there are a few dotted about that will work.

 

[Gasmk1]

You can normally find the gas rate of an appliance in the manufacturers instructions.

Failing that you can work it out off the Gross heat input whether that be in Btu's/hr or Kw/hr.

If you don't have manufacturers instructions they will be online or there may be a visible data badge on the appliance.

I use a calculation from my head but it is round the houses and one I have used since God knows when. It is accurate but I dare say there are more modern ways even if they do get you to the same answer.

If you google Kw to M3/hr gas, there are a few dotted about that will work.

I have used the 100,000 BTUS IS 100 cu ft since i Started and to convert 1 kw is a 1000 BTUS, it’s simple and pretty accurate which would make 64 kwatt is 640 cu ft

 

[John.g]

there is ~ 0.293 kwh in a cu ft gas or ~10.35 kwh in a cu meter
64 kwh = 64/0.293 or 218 cu ft . (6 cu meters)
there are 3412 btus in a kw.

 

[Gasmk1]

there is ~ 0.293 kwh in a cu ft gas or ~10.35 kwh in a cu meter
64 kwh = 64/0.293 or 218 cu ft . (6 cu meters)
there are 3412 btus in a kw.

Yes I had just woke up it’s the 3 4’s are twelve route so a u6 should easily cover

 

[Gasmk1]

I have used the 100,000 BTUS IS 100 cu ft since i Started and to convert 1 kw is a 1000 BTUS, it’s simple and pretty accurate which would make 64 kwatt is 640 cu ft

1 kw is 3412 BTUS as pointed out below I wasn’t fully awake when I wrote this

 

[Last Plumber]

1 kw is 3412 BTUS as pointed out below I wasn’t fully awake when I wrote this

Mine goes like this, Kw x 3412 = Btu's /1040 (1037 at the mo calorific value of one cubic foot) = Ft3 /35.32 (near enough) = M3
Or My quickest method is Kw / 10.77 = M3 (really rough but good enough for small stuff).