Just had new boiler installed

[davy999]

Hi people I hope you may be able to help me.
I have just had a Vaillant ecotec plus 418 installed to replace my old Vulcan continental and the new pump a wilo sounds like its full of marbles which I think is air trapped in it but it will not bleed through the screw in the center of the pump, also we hear what sound like a large amount of air which sounds like it vents in to the expansion tank through the feed pipe and not the vent pipe as a "glug" can be heard in the loft.
When looking at the pipe work in the airing cupboard the feed pipe from the expansion tank feeds in above the pump, the 22mm vent pipe runs up along side the feed pipe and they are connected to each other about 30cm or 40cm above the pump with a short length of 22mm pipe, it seems strange to me that they are connected in this way, the feed pipe gets hot all the way up to the expansion tank, I cannot see a bypass valve.
Thanks in advance for any help/replies

 

[Blackcatgas]

Pics of vent and feed arrangement?, you dont always need a bypass eg if a y plan is fitted.

 

[davy999]

thanks blackcatgas for your response
1st pic shows feed and vent connected
2nd pic shows both pipes going in to the loft
3rd pic shows 3 way valve
hope these are ok there's not a lot of room to get any closer.

 

[villa_tom]

Is this a brand new system? Could you not get your installer back as you should not have to put it right yourself. I have been to a new system recently that was making all sorts of noises from the pump - it turned out to be the pump on the wrong way round. I cant see your pics as my PC is playing up.

 

[davy999]

he's coming back on Thursday I just wanted to gather some info before I asked him the same questions I have checked the pump and it looks to be ok to me.

 

[quality]

When you say just had a new boiler fitted , when was this ?

 

[Blackcatgas]

Hi people I hope you may be able to help me.
I have just had a Vaillant ecotec plus 418 installed to replace my old Vulcan continental and the new pump a wilo sounds like its full of marbles which I think is air trapped in it but it will not bleed through the screw in the center of the pump, also we hear what sound like a large amount of air which sounds like it vents in to the expansion tank through the feed pipe and not the vent pipe as a "glug" can be heard in the loft.
When looking at the pipe work in the airing cupboard the feed pipe from the expansion tank feeds in above the pump, the 22mm vent pipe runs up along side the feed pipe and they are connected to each other about 30cm or 40cm above the pump with a short length of 22mm pipe, it seems strange to me that they are connected in this way, the feed pipe gets hot all the way up to the expansion tank, I cannot see a bypass valve.
Thanks in advance for any help/replies

Why does it seem strange to you that the pipes are that close together?, there is a 3 port fitted so no bypass required, is the "GLUG" sound that you hear on initial start up?.

 

[davy999]

it was installed 2 weeks ago.

the "glug" is heard at start up and I think only when the hot water tank is calling for water.

I don't find it strange that the pipes are close together just that the feed and vent are connected.

is it normal for the feed pipe to get hot all the way to the expansion tank, I have looked at other systems like mine and they don't do this but they are piped different.

 

[GQuigley67]

could be pump on wrong way around, creating a negative pressure on the feed pipe and if the open vent is tighed into the feed pipe then this will suck some water down from the vent if you know what I mean. As long as there is somewhere for the water to expand then I think it is acceptable, as that is all a vent is for expansion of water.

 

[clivetheplumber]

Pic 1 shows cold feed & open vent, was perfectly exceptable "back in the day" It did away with the need for cold feed & open vent all the way to the boiler, big saving on pipework. As long as the distance between the pipe work was no more than 150mm.

 

[davy999]

thanks for the answers, the arrow on the pump is pointing down (clockwise)

 

[Blackcatgas]

Ok my 2 pence worth, the vent and expansion are piped correctly, the pump is facing correctly ,pumping down so its "sucking" water from the tank rather than air from the vent, the flow from the boiler hopefully being purged of air at the first pipe it reaches (the vent).
Water expands when its heated, this expansion is taken up in the tank. Heat will rise upwards via convection (or is it radiation) ((I must have been in the common room chatting up the trainee hairdressers when we learnt that at college that day)) up that feed pipe to the tank, this is normal, Ive had my hand in many a warm tank when changing ballvalves etc over the last 15 yrs.

 

[davy999]

ok fair enough, but the purge of air (glug) always wakes us up in the morning not really the alarm clock I was looking for especially when I have been on night shift.

hopefully he can sort the pump out on Thursday.

Thanks for the replies.

 

[royston]

Ok my 2 pence worth, the vent and expansion are piped correctly, the pump is facing correctly ,pumping down so its "sucking" water from the tank rather than air from the vent, the flow from the boiler hopefully being purged of air at the first pipe it reaches (the vent).
Water expands when its heated, this expansion is taken up in the tank. Heat will rise upwards via convection (or is it radiation) ((I must have been in the common room chatting up the trainee hairdressers when we learnt that at college that day)) up that feed pipe to the tank, this is normal, Ive had my hand in many a warm tank when changing ballvalves etc over the last 15 yrs.

I agree with above, boiler has a straight run up expansion and the pump pulls back through, got shown this way years ago when i was an apprentice, they called it the H system.

 

[markproperjob]

have you checked the pump is not wrong way around? arrows on pump casing should point away from boiler, and if that is ok, is it too close to headers and over pumping? try turning down pump switch to position 1 0r 2 and see if same.

 

[Backboiler]

Is there a manual vent screw on the top pipe (primary) going into the cylinder. Vent it if there is. Also noticed a fernox filter on your picture. They can hold air and may need bleeding.

 

[davy999]

have you checked the pump is not wrong way around? arrows on pump casing should point away from boiler, and if that is ok, is it too close to headers and over pumping? try turning down pump switch to position 1 0r 2 and see if same.

thanks for the info pump is on position 3

 

[davy999]

Is there a manual vent screw on the top pipe (primary) going into the cylinder. Vent it if there is. Also noticed a fernox filter on your picture. They can hold air and may need bleeding.

thanks, no manual bleed but have just tried the TF1 and a small amount of air came out.

 

[Amir Akhtar]

might need a AAV

 

[markproperjob]

ive seen same symptoms as yours when over pumping, if pump is at max position 3.
vent pipe is hot because pump velocity is too great, shoving hot system water up it and into header tank with lots of glugging! try turning pump down to position 1 and see if improves, then try 2.

 

[parsonsplumbing]

hi i did not see a non return valve in them photos could it be pitting back in to ur heather tank