Kitchen taps

[rallen]

The usual kitchen taps have separate cold and hot flow, and for good reason, the water that comes from the storage tank is not what anyone would call clean water. We have such a kitchen tap in the laundry room. It has broken in that it has become very hard to turn the cold/hot valves, the cold especially. I went to buy a new tap but the plumbers shop said there is no way I can get a "mixer" tap that mixes like they do in Europe, because it is illegal. Is that case? Is it illegal to sell mixer taps?

Secondly can I simply repair my old kitchen tap, as it is very awkward to try to remove it (the fittings are bedind the sink bowl). I tried to prise the valves open to peek inside but I do not know how. A attach a picture.

Many thanks.

 

[REDSAW]

if your going to change them you will have to remove anyway.
this is a deck mixer one of the easiest to do.
go for the repair shut of the hot and cold supplies.
pop of the top of the tap.
unscrew the valve head, take of valve and repair washer then put back.4jobs a goodun.

 

[rallen]

Hi

I cannot removed those round things at the top of each valve as shown in my photo, are they screwed in or pressed? Also this tap has 1/4 turn valves.

 

[REDSAW]

THE MIDDLE BIT lifts out.
then take out screw inside, then unbolt valve.
take head and valve to good merchant 'one of the old type'to match up a ceramic valve gear for the heads.

 

[rallen]

No way to prise off those caps, due to time they are like welded in...

 

[pcollins]

Try a bit of WD-40 on the cap, it'll probably help unweld things...

 

[stevetheplumber]

No way to prise off those caps, due to time they are like welded in...

youll find these ones un screw thats what the two little notches are for might need some wd first and a little tap with a small scredriver or similar

 

[rallen]

No way to undo, the whole tap is coming off its base when I apply force and the caps are not budging. So I will buy another one.

To what the plumber's merchant said that kitchen mixer taps are illegal, is that true?

 

[WHPES]

It is only illegal if they are fitted without check valves on the supply pipes, which is standard practice. Many merchants don't know all the ins and outs.

If you mean that your cold water storage tank is dirty, then you should clean it out and sterilise it, which again is standard practice.

 

[moony]

yeah they are not allowed due to the water regs due to back flow.

 

[WHPES]

They are allowed if fitted with check valves.

 

[rallen]

It is only illegal if they are fitted without check valves on the supply pipes, which is standard practice. Many merchants don't know all the ins and outs.

If you mean that your cold water storage tank is dirty, then you should clean it out and sterilise it, which again is standard practice.

"To stop dirty hot water from back-flowing into the clean cold water supply in cases where the mains pressure drops" - is that description accurate?

I disconnected the cold water storage tank as soon as we moved into this house. We are on mains pressure now.

 

[REDSAW]

"To stop dirty hot water from back-flowing into the clean cold water supply in cases where the mains pressure drops" - is that description accurate?

I disconnected the cold water storage tank as soon as we moved into this house. We are on mains pressure now.

yup,
you may have been within 10meter drop of the local resevoir to have had c/w storage fed taps hence not being on c/w mains in the first place. so lets hope you dont get found out especially when you sell your house?. as the byelaws have been broken. tut tut.

 

[rallen]

Other houses in the street have also installed pressurised hot water cylinders, I doubt there was a particular reason to install the cold water storage tank other than builder's habit?

Why I immediately disconnected it?

In 22 years in this country, I have not yet seen a house that does not have one, and I have lived in many. And there has not been a single, a one cold water storage tank from the many I have seen, that I would even use to water plants in the garden, let alone use it for washing or brushing teeth. Some are completely uncovered, some are partially covered, those that have some sort of cover also have a sizeable hole to let a return pipe in, and when you lift up the lid you find dead wasps, spiders, pigeon droppings, dead mice, bugs and insects, cigarette butts, solder blobs and plenty of loft insulation fibres... I am trying to remember what else I have seen in those tanks. It is a disgrace.

Back to the kitchen taps, one plumber shop said kitchen mixer taps are illegal so he does not sell any other kind, another upmarket kitchen+bathroom shop said he'd never heard of that and he'd sell me anything, eg European types that also have a detachable head, which from what I know is also illegal or at least frowned upon.

In Europe they do not usually fit non-return valves in the cold mains in the flats and houses because the hot water cylinders have no pressure chambers and the hot water pressure feeds back into the cold water mains.

 

[Alanka]

I think this needs clarifying. I believe the regulations are as follows.

If the hot and cold water being supplied to the mixer tap are at very different pressures (usually high pressure cold mains water, and low pressure hot water from a loft tank and hot water cylinder), then there is NO need for any checkvalves provided the mixer tap is of the bi-flow or dual flow design - where the hot and cold waters pass through separate waterways and only mix when they reach the atmosphere at the end of the spout. Then, with the usual air-gap over the sink, there is no risk of backflow. Otherwise, for taps in which the H and C mix within the tap body, a single checkvalve must be fitted to each supply.

If the H and C supplies are balanced - that is, at substantially the same pressures - there is no need for any checkvalves whatever type of tap is used (provided it has the usual air gap over the sink).

 

[joe brown]

I think this needs clarifying. I believe the regulations are as follows.

If the hot and cold water being supplied to the mixer tap are at very different pressures (usually high pressure cold mains water, and low pressure hot water from a loft tank and hot water cylinder), then there is NO need for any checkvalves provided the mixer tap is of the bi-flow or dual flow design - where the hot and cold waters pass through separate waterways and only mix when they reach the atmosphere at the end of the spout. Then, with the usual air-gap over the sink, there is no risk of backflow. Otherwise, for taps in which the H and C mix within the tap body, a single checkvalve must be fitted to each supply.

If the H and C supplies are balanced - that is, at substantially the same pressures - there is no need for any checkvalves whatever type of tap is used (provided it has the usual air gap over the sink).

You do need check valves unless the mixer tap is dual flow - which means they only mix when leaving the tap and not in the tap - they are sectioned off.

 

[Alanka]

In my copy of the WRAS Water Regulations Guide (2nd Edition 2001) it clearly states that:

"The Water Supply Industry deems that the particular requirement of the Regulation [for single check valves to be fitted] will be met if there are no check valves on either 'side' [hot and cold] of the supplies to 'mixer' taps where water mixes within the body and the supplies are on balanced pressures."

You can also read this on page 3, 3rd column, above the diagram of a basin with mixer tap, at:

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It could well be of course that either the Regs or the views of the Water Supply Industry concerning this matter have changed since 2001, and this is now not allowed.

Does anyone out there know if this has happened? If so, please tell the forum and give us a reference.

 

[WHPES]

The 2001 Regulations are still current

 

[rallen]

Hmm my supply is not balanced, the hot water is at high pressure to start with, because pressure builds in the hot water cylinder. The same applies to bathroom taps and shower mixers, all of which mix the water in the body of the mixer. I cannot remember if the megaflo (pressurised hot water cylinder) has a one-way valve on its cold water supply, I think it has. Which means there could be some back flow into the cold water supply when you turn the taps on if the cold water supply somehow is cut off at a place far away from the house.

Why does the water company not fit a one way valve along side every water meter ?