Lagging external pipe from condensing boiler

[alex01]

Hi,

i've been asked to lag the above pipe from where it comes out of the wall to the drain. could I legally do this myself or do i have to get a qualified plumber to do it?

thanks in advance

alex

 

[Gray0689]

You can do that yourself
What size is the pipe?

 

[alex01]

You can do that yourself
What size is the pipe?

Hi, thanks for your quick reply, are you sure i can do it myself? a boiler insurance company has said that it has to be done by a qualified plumber and paperwork supplied.

It's 1 inch / 20mm white plastic pipe.

 

[Gray0689]

I'm sure you can lag a bit of pipe
But external condensate pipe should be min 32mm
If they want paperwork then you will have to get plumber in if you do get them to up size
If not 22mm x19mm armaflex lagging

 

[quality]

The paperwork you need Is an invoice
Ps I have started using isoline insulation when the customer won't pay for trace heating

 

[SUSSEX MAN]

Hold on, lagging external condensate pipe yes 32mm or 1 inch quarter. never heard that before?

 

[MarkAqua]

Always use 32mm outside. If they want paperwork then unfortunatly your going to have to get some one in to do it, it MAY be cheaper to get a laggin (insulation) firm to do it rather than a plumber, depending on their rates!

QUALITY:

 

[MarkAqua]

Always use 32mm outside. If they want paperwork then unfortunatly your going to have to get some one in to do it, it MAY be cheaper to get a laggin (insulation) firm to do it rather than a plumber, depending on their rates!

quality - you cant be serious? Trace heating in domestic property? The customer would never believe you that they "should" have it.

 

[SUSSEX MAN]

yes I Know that the external pipe is 32mm or old skool inch and a quarter, But I never heard about lagging IT?

 

[SUSSEX MAN]

If this is true,well learn something everyday

 

[WaterTight]

It can freeze. Had one the other day. Well, not frozen the other day - but re-piping section cut out because it froze. I don't quite get how it happened but it did.

 

[kirkgas]

I'm sure you can lag a bit of pipe
But external condensate pipe should be min 32mm
If they want paperwork then you will have to get plumber in if you do get them to up size
If not 22mm x19mm armaflex lagging

an external condensate should be EITHER 32mm or insulated 19mm

 

[kirkgas]

Always use 32mm outside. If they want paperwork then unfortunatly your going to have to get some one in to do it, it MAY be cheaper to get a laggin (insulation) firm to do it rather than a plumber, depending on their rates!

quality - you cant be serious? Trace heating in domestic property? The customer would never believe you that they "should" have it.

my mother in law got a new combi fitted last november and had to call them out 10 times due to it freezing, they have now said they are fitting trace heating to 1000's of houses, im waiting on it going in to get ripped into them to do the pipe properly in the first place rather than have her pay for electricity for their shoddy work

 

[Gray0689]

an external condensate should be EITHER 32mm or insulated 19mm

I always make it 40mm
Grant say it should be 32m not either

 

[kirkgas]

yes I Know that the external pipe is 32mm or old skool inch and a quarter, But I never heard about lagging IT?

it is deemed acceptable to do either 32mm or lagged 19mm externally, however due to the really bad weather last year some people are lagging 32mm as well as a belt and braces job but it isnt mandatory, no matter what you use there will always be one year where the extreme weather will catch it, the prob is far too many houses have long external 19mm horizontal runs which is making the problem worse, its all about slipping standards due to prices being squeezed down to an unsustainable level

 

[kirkgas]

I always make it 40mm
Grant say it should be 32m not either

as a manufacturer they have the final say on their boiler but the building regs or where ever they come from state either 32mm or if it has to be 19mm then it should be lagged and kept to a minimum

 

[AWheating]

after the last two years winters it has become more important to lag your 32mm pipework unless its a very small vertical run. I have even seen 40mm with 45* angled drop freeze (2 winters ago) situated inside an alley way, temps overnight were -15*c plus wind chill.

of course if everyone lagged them well then we would lose some easy work.

 

[WaterTight]

Exactly! The more confusion the better.

So incase anyone is too lazy to read the whole thread, pipe condensate in 10mm copper, run it horizontally as much as poss and never lag it.

 

[SUSSEX MAN]

Ok kirkgas I understand now. When I had a meeting with british gas at the beginning of the year they told me that the manufacturers of boilers are starting to think more of the problem of freezing and they said they are trying to work out a way to get the condensate pipe heated so it stops it freezing. I have always use 32mm on all the jobs I have done and they have never frozen yet .But I might be tempting fate.:thinking:

 

[SUSSEX MAN]

mmm I mean It makes sense really.

 

[alex01]

Thanks to all replies - spoke with insurance company, is insistant that lagging of current condensate pipe is carried out by gas safe engineer.

 

[Gray0689]

If you give your area I'm sure one of the guys on here will be able to get it sorted for you

 

[1968]

If you are lagging the pipe to prevent it from freezing then unfortunately this will not work. Insulating the pipe will only delay the action of freezing. The only way to offer your customer 100% insurance gainst the pipe from freezing is to install trace heating combined with insulation. I have been in this business since 1968 and believe me that is the only solutio. Should you only lag (insulate) the pipe, I would be more worried about the pipe freezing and the reaction from your customer.

A self regulating heating system is used as a solution to this problem due to its ease of installation, safety and lowest running cost. Kits are designed specifically for frost protection of pipework in the domestic / residential sector, especially boiler condensate dischrge lines.

The last two winters have really given a new meaning to the prevention of frozen pipes. Each year most industrial and commercial buildings generally take precautions to protect exposed pipework, but with unpredictable winters it has opened up a domestic market with a real need for frozen pipe prevention.

Key engineering features to look for in your pipe frost protection kit are very important and some of these are listed below:

1)The In-Line thermostat must be fully weatherproof and rated IP67 - it should operate by sensing air temperature and not by sensing at a single position on the pipe itself, thereby ensuring maximum protection is achieved at all times.
2)Assuming the maximum pipe size to be 32mm, the kit must provide frost protection at the lowest temperatures recorded during Winter 2010 – Look for self regulating rated at 12 w/m @ 10ºC and the recommendation to install in a straight run on the pipe and then install a minimum 13mm thickness of thermal insulation after fitting the trace heating. The heat loss calculation should be based on IEC 62395, the Standard for Electrical Resistance Trace Heating Systems for Industrial and Commercial applications
3)The flexibility of the heating cable must assist the installer, simplifying handling on site and providing ease of installation – this is particularly important when the installer has to fit the self regulating cable in a loop on the pipe within the wall
4)The small cross section (geometry) of the self regulating heating cable should allow the thermal insulation to fit comfortably and keep the aesthetics of the installation to a good standard and acceptable to the property owner.
5)The kit must include a spare end cap to enable the length of self regulating heating cable to be cut to the exact length of the pipe and sealed
6)In-line junction box in the kit must be complete with cable retention clamps to EN-60598-1 & BS4533 for increased safety

Hope the above helps

 

[1968]

If you are lagging the pipe to prevent it from freezing then unfortunately this will not work. Insulating the pipe will only delay the action of freezing. The only way to offer your customer 100% insurance against the pipe from freezing is to install trace heating combined with insulation. I have been in this business since 1968 and believe me that is the only solution. Should you only lag (insulate) the pipe, I would be more worried about the pipe freezing and the reaction from your customer.

A self regulating trace heating system is used as a solution to this problem due to its ease of installation, safety and lowest running cost. Kits are designed specifically for frost protection of pipework in the domestic / residential sector, especially boiler condensate dischrge lines.

The last two winters have really given a new meaning to the prevention of frozen pipes. Each year most industrial and commercial buildings generally take precautions to protect exposed pipework, but with unpredictable winters it has opened up a domestic market with a real need for frozen pipe prevention.

Key engineering features to look for in your pipe frost protection kit are very important and some of these are listed below:

1)The In-Line thermostat must be fully weatherproof and rated IP67 - it should operate by sensing air temperature and not by sensing at a single position on the pipe itself, thereby ensuring maximum protection is achieved at all times.
2)Assuming the maximum pipe size to be 32mm, the kit must provide frost protection at the lowest temperatures recorded during Winter 2010 – Look for self regulating rated at 12 w/m @ 10ºC and the recommendation to install in a straight run on the pipe and then install a minimum 13mm thickness of thermal insulation after fitting the trace heating. The heat loss calculation should be based on IEC 62395, the Standard for Electrical Resistance Trace Heating Systems for Industrial and Commercial applications
3)The flexibility of the heating cable must assist the installer, simplifying handling on site and providing ease of installation – this is particularly important when the installer has to fit the self regulating cable in a loop on the pipe within the wall
4)The small cross section (geometry) of the self regulating heating cable should allow the thermal insulation to fit comfortably and keep the aesthetics of the installation to a good standard and acceptable to the property owner.
5)The kit must include a spare end cap to enable the length of self regulating heating cable to be cut to the exact length of the pipe and sealed
6)In-line junction box in the kit must be complete with cable retention clamps to EN-60598-1 & BS4533 for increased safety

Hope the above helps

 

[mikimac]

Exactly! The more confusion the better.

So incase anyone is too lazy to read the whole thread, pipe condensate in 10mm copper, run it horizontally as much as poss and never lag it.

Sweeet..just keep going the way I've always been then Lol