Land lord certificate

[andf380]

Hi
I have a landlord certificate on a property to do next week he as a combi boiler but the flue is not sealed on the inside only sealed on outside can i issue the landlord cert and recommend the work doing or should i insist the work is carried out before i issue the cert
Thanks
Andy

 

[wnjswozo]

you cant insist he do anything,write it on gas cert,when he signs for it,he is legally responsable,at best that would classed as ar,if its a private landlord,your going to see plenty of dodgy things,so need your wits about you,make sure you have signed documents,just in case you go to court,great evidence to have yoour side

 

[andf380]

Thanks for the advise

 

[newbie1]

no you cant issue the cert is the flue sealed and safe-NO
no you cant make a landlord do anything but if someone dies in that property related to the flue you have said is safe to operate u will be up poo creek
you are there to issue a safety cert only if its all safe

 

[quality]

Just for the hell of it I have in the past few months repaired at least 30 boilers on an estate which is not yet 10 years old.
They all have the same Ideal classic fan flued boiler and they have all needed new fans.
They are all sited in the garage with no frost protection but the flue termination and sealing has been a proper task.
They all have shrouds, gromets, flanges, plates what ever you call them inside and out.
Holes through the wall have been punched through no sealing, no making good.
Problem is some garages have been made into rooms and the garage door being bricked up.

So it goes like this :- Yer fan has gone but need to disturb the never sealed flue you`ve got to replace it and its not to currents standards as it is so it will cost £££ extra to correct it

Reply :- this is a brand new house nobody has said anything before. (not that anybody has serviced it)

Cut a lost post short the company that registered them in the first place has gone bang.

quids in I thinks 400 houses

 

[Puddle]

no you cant issue the cert is the flue sealed and safe-NO
no you cant make a landlord do anything but if someone dies in that property related to the flue you have said is safe to operate u will be up poo creek
you are there to issue a safety cert only if its all safe

Of course you can issue a gas safety certificate,if you do not ,how does anyone no what ,if anything needs doing
A gas safety cert is not a pass or fail and it can be issued even when every appliance has been cut off if dangerous,explaining why
Thats why you have a space for 'defects identified ' and' remedial action taken'
if you go to a boiler and it fails its spillage test,you isolate with permition and record that on the report,and issue a report
If you know now the boiler flue needs sealing on the inside,tell the landlord now and take seal with you,tell him it saves adding defect on report,if he says no, put on report,then report it in the section provided

 

[dave8085]

well said puddle ! to the original question if you dont know how to fill out landlord certs dont do them !!

 

[GreenArmy]

andf380, can you confirm that you mean the flue is not sealed on internal wall in that the wall has not been made good i.e plastered around flue? or do you mean that the flue itself has no seal?

 

[newbie1]

so what would you write in the box that says is the appliance safe to use
because if the flue is not sealed then it isnt safe to use is it

 

[quality]

so what would you write in the box that says is the appliance safe to use
because if the flue is not sealed then it isnt safe to use is it

If your question is to my post then AR would be issued if converted into a room then ID

 

[newbie1]

no it was to puddle really
you can complete a landlord safety cert and list faults etc
but for a landlord safety certificate to be valid by its very nature it is that you are certifiying that all appliances are safe to use and a unsealed flue means the appliance is not safe to use

 

[Puddle]

so what would you write in the box that says is the appliance safe to use
because if the flue is not sealed then it isnt safe to use is it

Well if you feel it is not safe to use you would write no and explain in section provided,you still issue safety report,you may have to issue other paperwork as required
Personally if the flue was sealed correctly on the outside,I would say the boiler is safe to use and not in a dangerous condition,however in section provided would state 'boiler flue not fitted to current standards and requires sealing on inside of wall to allow and ensure continued safe operation of appliance'

But either way the report is issued

but for a landlord safety certificate to be valid by its very nature it is that you are certifiying that all appliances are safe to use

This is not correct and the very reasoning explains why so many defects listed on these reports go unrectified because people think because they have a certificate all is ok,this is not the fact

 

[rob jefkins]

I agree with puddle. It's all down to common sense here. Use your knowledge. If it's ID or AR, let the agent know you are shutting the appliance off. Fill out the cert to that effect. You don't want all the grief on your hands.

 

[migoplumber]

puddle has it bang on. landlord safety tickets cp12's are just that. issued you declare an appliance/instalation safe or not. they are always issued - dosnt mean instalation is correct, indeed my interpretation is the extreme opposite, use a cp12 to declare all the faults you can find on the instalation, get it signed (with your recommended remedials) your back covered.

as for flue not being sealed internally, looks ugly but if exterior flue termination is correct, cant see a regs contravention !!, unless mi states it must be sealed internally ?

 

[newbie1]

sorry my point is for the cert to be a valid certificate it needs to state all appliances are safe to use
yes you can issue it with the faults listed but those faults need to be rectified before a valid certificate that confirms you are saying those appliances are safe
what point is a certificate that states no appliance isnt safe to use you will still need a new one stating the appliances are safe

all flues have to be sealed both externally and internally
i agree with issuing the cert with all faults listed but those faults need to be rectified before a new cert can be issued

 

[migoplumber]

hi newbie, there is no problem with issuing a certificate that clearly states failed on either appliance or instalation. the certificate is still issued.

as a landlord myself i am aware if my cp12 is not only issued, but passed, my insurance is invalid, and i lose my right to my good landlord association. ( maybe even kill somebody )

at end of day, cp12 is there for everybody to know whats going on with instalation, nothing else

 

[GreenArmy]

sorry my point is for the cert to be a valid certificate it needs to state all appliances are safe to use
yes you can issue it with the faults listed but those faults need to be rectified before a valid certificate that confirms you are saying those appliances are safe
what point is a certificate that states no appliance isnt safe to use you will still need a new one stating the appliances are safe

all flues have to be sealed both externally and internally
i agree with issuing the cert with all faults listed but those faults need to be rectified before a new cert can be issued

Ive searched my books for the last hour to find where it states a room sealed appliance flue HAS to be sealed (i.e plastered in) on internal wall. I cant find this info in any of my corgi books and there is nothing in Unsafe Sits Procedure to say that it should carry any form of classification. I havent looked at any MI to find this info where no doubt it will probably say it requires sealing. Based on this i would write down on CP12 that flue not sealed on internal wall as per manufacturers instructions (if MI said it had to be done) (to be fair if it isnt a massive hole i'd just fill it in there and then).
Am i wrong?

 

[andf380]

Thanks for all your replys have spoken with the landlord and he as asked me to rectify the issue and then do the landlord certificate so problem solved Thanks
Andy

 

[kirkgas]

a room sealed boiler not made good on the outside is AR as POC's can get into the cavity, a RS boiler not sealed on the inside is not at risk at all, as long as it is sealed outside no POC's can get into the property, IF it is unsealed on the inside what is the gas risk? a hole apperaing in the flue would allow POC's to rise up into the cavity not back into the room, (thats why you cant have joints inside the cavity) it may contavene building regs as there is a draught getting into the room, it may contavene MI if it staes the hole should be made good, but it can only be NCS nothing else