Loft water pressure issue

[Abdul Haque]

Hi all, I'll try and make this as simple as possible.

We had a new Megaflow pressure system installed, new pipes included.

When taps are run in the ground and 1st floor, there is no water in loft, otherwise we have good pressure in loft. We were told as a result, air gets to the loft, and hence we have random water sputter from outlets in loft only. We also hear a random whistling sound, sounds like air is being pulled, from only one outlet in loft. This outlet is located next to where the pipes enters the loft.

I paid good money to have this inspected by a plumber, he advised we needed a Grundfos home booster. The original plumbers who done the job have no clue. 40% of the budget remains to be paid to them.

I then called Grundfos, they confirmed with me we had a single pair of hot and cold pipe come from cellar, this is where the Megaflow is located, and then it branches out to all the outlets in the house. After confirming this, they advised no booster will help as this issue we are facing (sputter and whistle in loft) is due to how the pipes were laid out. He advised we needed an independent supply of hot and cold to loft from cellar (Megaflow) to even out the pressure from root point.

I'm planning lay new pipes from cellar to loft. But I need some confirmation. Can I get some thoughts on this please?

Thanks

 

[rpm]

Personally "eyes on" is better than some nameless person on the end of a phone.

 

[ShaunCorbs]

Do you know what's your incoming pressure and flow like ?

 

[Abdul Haque]

I've measured it before, and when Thames water came down, they confirmed we had good enough pressure.

 

[Abdul Haque]

The plumber that said we needed a home booster was from Plumbforce Direct. The internet is full of crap reviews about them, should have checked before I hired them.

 

[ShaunCorbs]

I've measured it before, and when Thames water came down, they confirmed we had good enough pressure.

What was your findings ??

 

[Abdul Haque]

My memory fails me, I'll have to check again.

 

[Abdul Haque]

Apologies for the delay, the findings are as follows.
Pressure = 4 bars
Flow = 19L per min

 

[ShaunCorbs]

Should be fine and a pump isn't going to do anything with pressures around them figures

 

[Abdul Haque]

Should be fine and a pump isn't going to do anything with pressures around them figures

Sorry fine to do what?

 

[ShaunCorbs]

Sorry fine to do what?

You shouldn't need a pump if your main incoming pressure is 4 bar

Would say it's down to maybe a tap not fully shut / shutting off and when you open another outlet it's sucking in from the loft

 

[Abdul Haque]

Thanks, what's your opinion on laying separate line from source to loft to fix no pressure issue in loft while other taps are run?

 

[ShaunCorbs]

water will take the easiest route/ path

so we cant guarantee anything, it might or might not work

sorry

 

[Abdul Haque]

water will take the easiest route/ path

so we cant guarantee anything, it might or might not work

sorry

I wonder how the plumbing is done in multi occupancies over many floors, you always get water...

 

[ShaunCorbs]

I wonder how the plumbing is done in multi occupancies over many floors, you always get water...

much higher pressures and installed correctly

 

[Jones82]

It all depends on your system requirements, how many showers, baths, basins, toilets etc Are they all fed off one supply pipe, how big is the supply, how far and how high does it travel.

For example although the pressure may be 4 bar in the cellar you lose 0.1 bar per meter so by the time it reaches the top of a 5 storey house the pressure would be reduced due to the effect of gravity.

The size of the pipes could also be an issue, they should be of a large enough capacity to carry the volume of water needed.

Basically your problem could be due to poor system design or just a faulty part of the system not working correctly.

If its a very large house then it may need designing to suit the requirements of your system, larger pipe work may be necessary.

I'd recommend getting a few different plumbers and plumbing companies round to quote to put the system right or fix the problem. You shouldn't have to pay for this.

You mentioned flats, flats and apartments have mains water pipe twice or even three times the size of a domestic supply pipe and the supply is often pumped from large tanks in the basement to achieve the pressure required to get to the top of the block. I've seen 7 bar supplies on a block of flats and 50mm supply pipes.

 

[rpm]

[QUOTE="Jones82, post: 945209, member: 65224
You mentioned flats, flats and apartments have mains water pipe twice or even three times the size of a domestic supply pipe and the supply is often pumped from large tanks in the basement to achieve the pressure required to get to the top of the block. I've seen 7 bar supplies on a block of flats and 50mm supply pipes.[/QUOTE]

Been there and got the T-shirt on Worthington Simpsons / Holden & Brookes pumps.
Proper pumps not micky mouse stuff.

 

[Abdul Haque]

Measured pressure again this morning, it was only 2.5 bars!

Cellar: incoming supply 15mm lead pipe, joins to 22mm copper
Ground floor: Kitchen, shower
1st floor: Bathroom, basin in other room
2nd floor: WC with basin, bathroom with basin

They're all fed from one supply pipe. 22mm is laid all throughout, but reduced to 15mm once it reaches 2nd floor. Then it joins to outlets via 15mm.

Approximate distances to outlets from cylinder situated in cellar:
- 1st flr Bath, up 2.3m > across 5.2m
- G flr Kitchen, up 2.3m > across 8m > down 1.4m
- G flr Shower, up 2.3m > across 6.7m > down 1.4m
- 1st flr Basin, up 2.3m > across 3m
- 2nd flr WC Basin, up 2.3m > across 1.6m > up 4.2m
- 2nd flr Bath, up 2.3m > across 1.6m > up 3.2m > across 6m > up 0.6m

I've booked an incoming pipe upgrade tomorrow from 15mm lead to 32mm plastic. This will be from the main pipe that runs along the road. Will see if it makes a difference to the original issues posted on this thread.

 

[Abdul Haque]

Side topic, does anyone know where I can get the tap connector in the following link that fits 1" to 1.5" taps? I'd be interested to measure pressure at in-home taps...

Rothenberger Water Pressure Gauge 10bar

 

[Chuck]

Measured pressure again this morning, it was only 2.5 bars!

That's still well above the OFWAT permitted minimum (0.7 bar):

Water pressure - Ofwat

 

[Abdul Haque]

After upgrading incoming 15mm lead pipe to 32mm blue plastic pipe, this has resulted in more flow and the pressure of approximately 2.5 bar stayed the same. Now we're able to run g flr kitchen, 1st flr bath, 2nd flr bath simultaneously. Will look out for the sputter/whistle issues.