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nems1982

After some of you really kindly helped me last time I thought this would be the best place for some more honest advice.
Following my last thread
[h=2] Undersized Vent For Baxi Bermuda 552[/h]I did as advised and spoke to the relevant companies and after a little pursuasion (and his own investigation...) the letting agent agreed that the company who initially issued the CP12 could come back and reassess the vent and give us a quote for the work which could then be passed onto to the landlord.

The company called yesterday and booked an appointment for this morning. When the engineer arrived he was not the company owner as I was led to believe but another man he invited himself into the house where I was on my own with my 5 month old and one of my twins (teachers strike), he then glanced at the vent and informed me that it was fine, not too small and then made to leave. I then told him about what the BG man had told me and said that I was worried that I was getting conflicting advice. At this point he told me that BG didn't know what they were talking about and that the engineer was just trying it on. I told him that BG had only been called out to fix radiator and so was unlikely he was trying his luck as the insurance policy on the house covers any work. It was at this point that he started to shout at me..... He started to question me about the size and I told him I was too sure of the sizing but was under the impression it had to be 100cm2. He went out to his van to get a book and when he re-emerged he called baxi to check what size vent their largest boiler required. AT NO POINT DID HE ATTEMPT TO LOOK AT THE BOILER even though it was right next to him in the sitting room. When he spoke to Baxi they told him the maximum required was 78cm2 (I think) he told me that the vent was more than big enough and that I was being ridiculous. I tried to tell him that I just wanted to make sure my family were safe because we keep being told different things. After another debate involving him shouting at me continuously that there was nothing wrong he stormed out telling me that I am ignorant. I thought it best not to dignify this last comment with a response and I was in fact at this point in floods of tears so unable to say anything either way. Luckily while the engineer had been on the phone to Baxi I had called my dad who happened to arrive just as the engineer was leaving. I was too flustered to really retain any of that information the engineer had provided but luckily my dad did and once apprised of the facts dad measured the vent.......it is too small. The enginner did not look at the external part of the vent which I am told was necessary. The engineer then sat at the end of our road and when again approached by my dad (who is luckily a very reasonable man) the engineer told him that he was waiting to hear from Baxi about what size the boiler is as, if it is the biggest sort of boiler they do, the vent was too small.

I'm sorry this has been such a long read but I really am at the end of my tether with all of this. The landlord is still refusing to do the work and the letting agent is sending round someone else from the same company to give us a quote. So far this company have issued an illegal CP12 (not filled in properly) and sent round mr nasty. I'm not a fussy or rude person I just want my family to be safe. My husband and I are now discussing moving again (been here a month) which we will have to do if necessary but I really don't want to have to disrupt the children again.

Please help.

Naomi xx
 
sounds like your having a rought time there naomi , can you sugest to the letting agent and your landlord you will get an independant gas safe enginner in to do the work ? and knock it off the rent , maybe drop into the converstaion what there legal onligations are
 
Thanks Bod, that is a good idea but I know the landlord wont go for it because he thinks the CP12 shows that there is no problem but it just hasn't been filled in. We had to replace the shower fittings because he refused to pay £90 to the handyman. It was no real hardship because I'm quite good with things like that but it did leave me £40 out of pocket. He doesn't want to hear about any problems because he doesn't want to pay for them.

Naomi xx
 
sounds a bit of a wolly tbh , id go as far then and say if they work isnt done your going to go seek legal advice with regards the incomplete cp12. see what happens then or report the gas firm its self they have a responsibility too
 
Agreed but if the vent is not 90% of the size it should be is this not classified as AR and should be turned off and warning notice filled out!
 
Thanks Bod, I think that might be our only option at this point. xx
 
Further more how could this guy not work out himself what size the vent needed to be!?
 
Thanks Jefaz, we did turn it off to start with but we've had no choice but to put it back on because of the weather. BG man did issue an 'at risk' notice but didn't turn it off and we didn't sign disclaimer.
 
Also an option of threat is to ring gas safe themselves to report dodgy gas work!! Tht will almost certainly get people to listen! There should be a company/engineer number on the cp12 paperwork!?
 
Jefaz, he said its not his responsibilty to remember the vent size for all boilers...might have been an idea to have a look into it before he turned up though!
xx
 
You don't have to remember what vent size each boiler needs! There is a data plate on the boiler which will have a heat input on, add this to the fire heat input (again it will have a plate) -7 then multiply by 5!!
You have the answer he is looking for!!
 
I feel so stupid but the engineer that came today didn't show his id and I forgot to ask and as he didn't leave a report I have little to go on. But can look into the guy that did the CP12. I feel horrible for doing it.

Naomi xx
 
Did he ask you to sign saying it was at risk and he needed to isolate the gas suppy? If you refused to sign I think the path is to ring the gas supplier and turn off in the street! If you have turned it back on yourself you may be commiting an offence!! And the boiler shouldn't have passed a cp12 in the first place!!
 
Jefaz, he said its not his responsibilty to remember the vent size for all boilers...might have been an idea to have a look into it before he turned up though!
xx

if i could play the noise off family fortunes i would


X
 
If the first guy is from the same company then yes u have info to start with!! It's all very well saying you feel horrible for doing it but if god forbid anything happened to you or your family you would feel alot worse!
 
I know, thank Jafaz. I think we will have to speak to gas safe about the whole thing. We didn't sign anything to confirm what the BG man deemed unsafe. We haven't got any choice but to use it. The landlord doesn't believe that its serious and has refused to believe that we shouldn't be using it.
with regards to todays engineer he wouldn't look at the boiler. he said he didn't have to he could tell from looking at the heater in front of it that the vent would be fine. Those were his actual words.
***
 
well what I would do is ring the company and tell them you think the boiler ventilation is too small, add in that if the vent is 89%
or less of what it actually should be then they have left a gas appliance turned on in an AR situation. State that you are ringing gas safe to ask the inspector for your area to come and verify its all correct!
I guarantee that this company will come back out and check it properly cos that doubt will be in his mind!
if they eventually agree and come out and find its no good,ask for official paperwork stating this fact
if they dont come out just ring gas safe and the inspector will come out and he will have the say!
let us know how it goes.............and remember we are the honest ones and are here to help!
good luck!!
 
there is no pass or fail with a cp12 you record what you see and may have to act on this ie turn of or cap of issue notices etc
 
there is no pass or fail with a cp12 you record what you see and may have to act on this ie turn of or cap of issue notices etc

Sorry steve, i think if the CP12 isn't issued then the tenant can't move in, that is if works detailed aren't carried out. As the CP12 hasn't been filled in properly it doesn't make much difference either way for us. Thanks for letting me know though.
Naomi xx
 
Sorry steve, i think if the CP12 isn't issued then the tenant can't move in, that is if works detailed aren't carried out. As the CP12 hasn't been filled in properly it doesn't make much difference either way for us. Thanks for letting me know though.
Naomi xx

a new tenant should be issued with a valid CP12 within 28 days of moving in, although the landlord has a care of duty to ensure it is checked BEFORE the tenant moves, as obviously any problems could endanger the tenant
 
I think you need to get your facts straight. At no point have we been advised of a shower fitting problem (in fact the shower fittings were all replaced in September 2011 just before you moved in and therefore would have been under guarantee) we have not refused to pay £90 for anything like that.

We are in dispute with BG as they have clearly written on their paperwork that the vent is within 90% of the required size which therefore means it that they should not have issued an 'at risk' notice, but a NCS notice instead.

After being told personally by the BG engineer and then the gas safe engineer doing the CP12 that the vent size was not a risk we decided that the work would not be carried out immediately as we had just spent thousands repairing the damage done by the previous tenant.

People should not be commenting without all the facts!!!!
 
I'm not certain if this is the correct place to be discussing this. This thread was started with the view to getting some advice from professionals. If you wish to discuss the matter further you can speak to the agent about obtaining our contact details.

Just to confirm though, the shower fitting was not new as part of the head was missing, it would constantly fall off the wall fitting and was not only dangerous but impossible for an adult to use. We decided to replace the shower fittting as we were informed by the agent that you were unwilling to spend anymore money at the time. We are not responsible for reporting issues to you and suggest you take that up with the agent.

With regards to the issue with the vent it is by your own admittance to small, we have recieved emails from the landlord that say as much. We are now in possession of 3 'at risk' notices 2 issued by the gentleman who did the service for you in october (which we now have a copy of) and 1 other gentleman who also advised as of the 'at risk' notice.

I would like to advise you at this point that though you may have had a discussion with the engineer that issued the CP12, we were here when the inspection was done and at no point did the engineer look at the vent.

I would now advise that you contact us directly to discuss this matter further.

Naomi
 
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