need for zoneing!!!

[ADM360]

I now have a diffinative anwser!!!

looked at a job last week, new boiler, need room stat, recomend sealed system upgrade plus a few other small bits! all good.

bring up about recent regs regarding the requirment for zoneing of demestic properties, will double check if required for this job!! customer happy to wait for outcombe/ quote.

I ring my local Building control for the final answer on the requirment for zoneing,after all its there rule that we have to work to!! after a brief conversations and I stated that I thought that the new regs covered all properties even under 150m2, the building control officer said " you seam to know more me and that I would suggest you call some one from one of your trade assocsiations ie GSR":banghead:

so if building control don't know how and when we should be zoning existing heating system how do we???:banghead:

 

[SimonJohns]

If its existing you can do what you want

It's only on new that you have to do all reasonably practicable

 

[PlumbBobBob]

thats how i read it as well. only on new build is zoning a requirement.

 

[croydoncorgi]

only on new build is zoning a requirement.

errrrr.....are you sure about this?

(I agree it's total nonsense in 'small domestic' systems - but nonsense is often compulsory!!!)

 

[AlexGas]

Defo - new build only.

 

[Roger Welton]

http://www.planningportal.gov.uk/uploads/br/BR_PDF_PTL_DOMHEAT.pdf

Page 22 requirement for zoning existing is the same as new.

 

[AlexGas]

Here's a good guide on How to Comply with the 2010 Buiding Regs Part L. It has example layouts for new systems to ensure compliance.

Check it out at:
TACMA Guidance on Part L Dec 2010 - Energy Publications

 

[dancinplumba]

no its not just new builds, its when you change more than just boiler, ie to bring system up to spec ie boiler and mebe prog stat, if just boiler replacing and there is stat already installed they recommend that you put in trvs if none there. As i have sed in other posts, the way round it is to put in controls first then say week later put in boiler imho

 

[SimonJohns]

no its not just new builds, its when you change more than just boiler, ie to bring system up to spec ie boiler and mebe prog stat, if just boiler replacing and there is stat already installed they recommend that you put in trvs if none there. As i have sed in other posts, the way round it is to put in controls first then say week later put in boiler imho

There's no need for a way round

If a customer can't afford trv's. You don't have to fit them

All you have been asked to do is fit a boiler then that's all you have to do

I know its bad and shouldn't be done as far as good practise goes. But you cannot make someone have them

For eg. Up until 2010 we could fit band d

 

[stevew451]

Can the new trvs with read out do this zoning

 

[dancinplumba]

Can the new trvs with read out do this zoning

dont think so simon tbh cust could remove too easily

 

[stevew451]

have a look at the download from above and diagram number 11

 

[dancinplumba]

There's no need for a way round

If a customer can't afford trv's. You don't have to fit them

All you have been asked to do is fit a boiler then that's all you have to do

I know its bad and shouldn't be done as far as good practise goes. But you cannot make someone have them

For eg. Up until 2010 we could fit band d

installation is not to current regs, i appreciate that you carnt make em have it, thats why i suggest way round it. i dont put boilers in without any control ie prog stat its in with my price, if i lose work, so be it but i help cust save money and they tell others, way round regs is controls first invoice then later boiler, or backdated invoice for controls if emergency ?
but if cust wants the zoneing, let em av it.
all in IMHO

 

[anz]

There's no need for a way round

If a customer can't afford trv's. You don't have to fit them

All you have been asked to do is fit a boiler then that's all you have to do

I know its bad and shouldn't be done as far as good practise goes. But you cannot make someone have them

For eg. Up until 2010 we could fit band d

So what your saying basically is Building Regulations only have to be adhered to if your customer can afford it?

So your saying its OK to fit a non condensing standard efficiency boiler if the customer requests it?

 

[anz]

If its existing you can do what you want

It's only on new that you have to do all reasonably practicable

This is a quote from a previous thread, which explains well when you must zone a system.

The latest Part L regulations say that if you are replacing more than one individual component (heating control) on a system, it must be zoned in to at least two zones and brought up to the latest standards.

A heating control is defined as a:

Boiler
Thermostat
Timer
Pump
Valve

So if your upgrading the boiler and thermostat/programmer and not zoning the property, then technically this is illegal.

So this DOES apply to existing property's when more than one heating control is replaced.


[DLMURL]http://www.fitathermostat.com/pdf/guide_to_building_regulations_part_l.pdf[/DLMURL]

 

[dancinplumba]

with you all the way anz

 

[AlexGas]

Dunfoss has a Part L Control Pack Catalogue:

http://danfoss-randall.co.uk/PCMPDF/021v01.pdf

 

[dancinplumba]

sadly prefer honeywell, whos dunfoss anyway ? soz had to say it

 

[AlexGas]

I'm Honeywell too.
The Dunfoss book has 3D pics! Wow!

 

[stevew451]

HONEYWELL ZONING KIT £550 keeping prices down will be hard

 

[dancinplumba]

sadly its going to cost in the first instance, and am sure there are lots who carnt/won't want it doing, and there a installs that we/you may think its not required, but it will save energy/money in the long term. dont want not to do it. but if i HAVE TO NOT do it cos of cost then have to find way round it to comply. install boiler with no controls is illegal and not helping cust, install control upgrade first then a boiler after is the only way round this. yes cust pays control upgrade but it is fast payback and not as costly as zoneing.

ps: unless they are rich lol


and thanks to anz

 

[stevew451]

Last year did some work on social housing servicing and installs none of the new systems were zoned just rf prog/stat hope this isnt a case of one rule for one and not for the other

 

[buckley plumb]

I now have a diffinative anwser!!!

looked at a job last week, new boiler, need room stat, recomend sealed system upgrade plus a few other small bits! all good.

bring up about recent regs regarding the requirment for zoneing of demestic properties, will double check if required for this job!! customer happy to wait for outcombe/ quote.

I ring my local Building control for the final answer on the requirment for zoneing,after all its there rule that we have to work to!! after a brief conversations and I stated that I thought that the new regs covered all properties even under 150m2, the building control officer said " you seam to know more me and that I would suggest you call some one from one of your trade assocsiations ie GSR":banghead:

so if building control don't know how and when we should be zoning existing heating system how do we???:banghead:

had the same with stoke building control this wk i was told the zoning under 150m2 is good practice not compulsary . who sets the rules and who is supposed to make everyone aware of them .i have my energy eff cert so i would have thought they should inform me of the changes . electricians are notified of any edition changes so why armt plumbers and gas engineers

 

[mattyp]

There seems to be widespread confusion with the whole issue ! Not just on this forum, but the local guys i chat to in the merchants . Ive personally been zoning new installs, but not so when boiler swapping, and until i get 100% clarification on the issue, its staying that way !!

 

[ADM360]

Thought This one might run for a bit!!