New bathroom / New Plumber!

[Xenon]

Hi

New member here - hi to all, seems like a great community.

I have moved into my first house and the upstairs bathroom needs doing. The old suite has all been removed, tiles are off and the walls are prepared for new tiles. Next step the plumbing...

We want to install a shower but can't decide between a basic shower tap, an electric shower, or mixer with pump. The mixer/pump would be first choice depending on cost but I wanted to check that our tanks are suitable for the job. We have two 25 gallon cold water cisterns connected together in the loft, and a 130L primatic hot water cylinder in the airing cupboard (which backs onto the bathroom).


I believe this is a complete list of the necesary plumbing work:-

• Build platform for pump (space limited)
• Run new cold pipe from loft tank to pump (dormer house - perhaps more tricky?)
• Fit essex or sussex flange to cylinder
• Run hot feed to pump
• Fit mixer tap to stud wall
• Run pump outputs under floor into bathroom to mixer tap
• Re-site bath taps and waste to opposite side of bathroom for p-shape bath.
• Move plumbing for heated towel rail 2 ft sideways to allow space for p-shape bath.
• Connect new basin toilet and bath and towel rail.

Here come the questions:-

1. Assuming I bought a good 1.5 bar shower pump, are my tanks big enough for the job?
2. On the estimate of £500 for pump and shower components, roughly how much extra for labour and materials? roughly how long would such a job take?
3. Should I consider taking this task on myself? (no plumbing experience but fairly handy / confident).
4. If not, and we couldn't afford this setup, would a basic shower tap (just washing soap out of hair in the bath type thing) be possible on gravity fed hot water? the speed of the hot water bath tap is pretty good!

Your thoughts appreciated.

Paul

 

[metaldust9]

dont bother the pump will empty you system in minutes,think i would be tempted to rip the lot out and fit 28kw to 33 kw combi in as what your sugesting will cost more than £500

 

[moony]

Hi

New member here - hi to all, seems like a great community.

I have moved into my first house and the upstairs bathroom needs doing. The old suite has all been removed, tiles are off and the walls are prepared for new tiles. Next step the plumbing...

We want to install a shower but can't decide between a basic shower tap, an electric shower, or mixer with pump. The mixer/pump would be first choice depending on cost but I wanted to check that our tanks are suitable for the job. We have two 25 gallon cold water cisterns connected together in the loft, and a 130L primatic hot water cylinder in the airing cupboard (which backs onto the bathroom).


I believe this is a complete list of the necesary plumbing work:-

• Build platform for pump (space limited)
• Run new cold pipe from loft tank to pump (dormer house - perhaps more tricky?)
• Fit essex or sussex flange to cylinder
• Run hot feed to pump
• Fit mixer tap to stud wall
• Run pump outputs under floor into bathroom to mixer tap
• Re-site bath taps and waste to opposite side of bathroom for p-shape bath.
• Move plumbing for heated towel rail 2 ft sideways to allow space for p-shape bath.
• Connect new basin toilet and bath and towel rail.

Here come the questions:-

1. Assuming I bought a good 1.5 bar shower pump, are my tanks big enough for the job?
2. On the estimate of £500 for pump and shower components, roughly how much extra for labour and materials? roughly how long would such a job take?
3. Should I consider taking this task on myself? (no plumbing experience but fairly handy / confident).
4. If not, and we couldn't afford this setup, would a basic shower tap (just washing soap out of hair in the bath type thing) be possible on gravity fed hot water? the speed of the hot water bath tap is pretty good!

Your thoughts appreciated.

Paul

1) yes just.... 50gallon is minimum to run one bathroom.
2) just for the pump installation and materials ? i would be charging 300-350 would take me 4-6 hourse depending how far pump was from shower and cwsc
3)no chance, it will end up with a knackered pump and a void warranty but let me know if you wanna go ahead and i'll post instructions and guidelines
4)depends as most nowadays are for high pressured systems but you can still get them for low pressure

conclussion

go for a decent eleccy one

 

[Xenon]

Hi

Thanks for your replys. I have recently spoken to the Mira tech dept. and also the local plumbing store who both reccommend not to run a shower pump off of a primatic tank - they say it will empty the hot cylinder too quickly (as you stated metaldust9) and could upset the air bubble system inside. They did however say that we could use a power shower unit and fit a regulator to regulate the water flow.

I'm confused as to which option to take now. We are installing a nice new bathroom and have a P shape bath on order - ideally we would like to have a shower that you can stand under and have a reasonably nice shower. My only concern with an electric shower is that we would be heating a cylinder of hot water via gas anyway for the hot taps and downstairs shower, and then paying again in electricity for the upstairs shower. Maybe not cost effective? I calculated roughly £500-£600 for an electric shower (£300 for good one, £50 cable, £150 labour quote, new rcd / breaker £50 ish?) which seems like a hefty sum for what would really be a compromise. How do the electric showers fair these days in comparison? would it perhaps be as good as our downstairs gravity fed shower with roughly 7m head?

The other choice is to scrap the upstairs shower idea, cancel the p shaped bath and just get a straight one, and get one of those showers on the taps, which I would imagine is the easiest and cheapest option? my baths hot water is gravity fed in 22mm pipe and the cold is mains pressure in 15mm pipe. Would it just be a question of fit the tap fitting and shower and off I go, or is there plumbing involved?

Thanks in advance...

Paul

 

[franky]

Check what your Mains pressure is like before you go for the electric shower of the mains. You could always go for an electric shower coming from the tank.
Don't go for a gravity fed shower just to save money after getting a new bathroom done you'll regret it. The number one thing people complain about is shower pressure.

 

[plumberdarren]

To utilise the hot water cylinder how about a power shower or does that present the same problem as using a pump ?

 

[washer]

I would update your central heating and fit a standard indirect cylnder, then install a decent power shower. It will be worth the extra expense.

 

[tipintim]

1..... Not big enough
2.....Labour..£320
3.....Why not
4.....Yes
5.....Baths are desighned to lay in, not stand in

 

[moony]

i have a ten kw shower in my own home which would be great back up if the boiler ever failed also.

swings and roundabouts really pluses and minuses to all types of system - sorry i didnt read you had a primatic cylinder in which case first step would be to change that regardless of what shower i was fitting. theyre outdated imo

 

[Xenon]

I would update your central heating and fit a standard indirect cylnder, then install a decent power shower. It will be worth the extra expense.

I have decided not to fit a standard indirect cylinder - If I were to update the heating system, I would update it with a direct combi system. We will put the combi boiler in when our current boiler packs up.

To utilise the hot water cylinder how about a power shower or does that present the same problem as using a pump ?

I was told I could use a power shower with a restrictor fitted but can anyone confirm this?

Apparently, to use a bath mixer tap, I would need hot and cold gravity feeds. My cold is mains pressure. Therefore I have ruled this out as there is still substantial plumbing work for little gain.

My options are:-
1. Fit an electric shower (still concerned that we would be heating a cylinder of hot water via gas anyway for the hot taps and downstairs shower, and then paying again in electricity for the upstairs shower - not sure this is cost effective)
2. Fit a power shower unit with restrictor (?)
3. Dont fit any shower - use the downstairs one. Fit a shower in once combi is installed.

Right now...thinking no. 3


Paul