New boiler advice needed please.

[HiQ]

Hello everyone.
I am new to the forum and would welcome some views on a quote I just had from a large nationwide supplier.
Current system is in a 3 bed, 2 bath bungalow, vented HW storage, fully pumped S plan, 9 rads, 2 tanks in loft, 7 yr old Drayton (BG branded) wax filled TRV's. Boiler is Ideal icos 24he fitted by BG 7 years ago.
We have recently bought the property located on the South coast, only 2 of us in occupation 98% of time and do not heat 2 of the bedrooms and 1 bathroom. Heat requirement calculations indicate 11KW ignoring our limited use.
My 2 main reasons for changing the system are; I would like to remove the need for storage tanks in the loft and stop/minimize the currently excessive boiler short cycling.
The quote was £5,500 for a WB 30CDi combi and included the following that I would like a second opinion on:
1. The current boiler is obsolete and rubbish and will fail imminently and cannot be fixed.
2. My CH pipes being under the concrete floor will "definitely" leak with the new high pressure combi boiler.
3. I will have to disconnect (and separately replace) my Mira LP thermo mixer showers.
4. My newly installed Drayton digistat +3 will not work with the new system and I will need a new one.
5. The new boiler will not short cycle as it modulates from 1W to 30W - I questioned that the technology had improved so much and he confirmed I had not misheard.
6. Replace all 8 TRV's and balance valves as the old ones will "definitely" leak.
7. Gas use will be 30% lower than now.
I will of course now obtain a quote from a small, local, company but would like to know if all the above is correct beforehand.
Many thanks in anticipation.

 

[IDCHAPPY]

30%?? I'm dubious, technology hasn't moved on that much in 7 years, is the WB 120% Efficient?
The icos wasn't the best of boiler but if it's running?

 

[kris]

For everythin your being qouted for its not outrageous. But they have no way of knowing if a pipes or trvs will or wont leak.

 

[AlexGas]

Hello everyone.
I am new to the forum and would welcome some views on a quote I just had from a large nationwide supplier.
Current system is in a 3 bed, 2 bath bungalow, vented HW storage, fully pumped S plan, 9 rads, 2 tanks in loft, 7 yr old Drayton (BG branded) wax filled TRV's. Boiler is Ideal icos 24he fitted by BG 7 years ago.
We have recently bought the property located on the South coast, only 2 of us in occupation 98% of time and do not heat 2 of the bedrooms and 1 bathroom. Heat requirement calculations indicate 11KW ignoring our limited use.
My 2 main reasons for changing the system are; I would like to remove the need for storage tanks in the loft and stop/minimize the currently excessive boiler short cycling.
The quote was £5,500 for a WB 30CDi combi and included the following that I would like a second opinion on:
1. The current boiler is obsolete and rubbish and will fail imminently and cannot be fixed.
2. My CH pipes being under the concrete floor will "definitely" leak with the new high pressure combi boiler.
3. I will have to disconnect (and separately replace) my Mira LP thermo mixer showers.
4. My newly installed Drayton digistat +3 will not work with the new system and I will need a new one.
5. The new boiler will not short cycle as it modulates from 1W to 30W - I questioned that the technology had improved so much and he confirmed I had not misheard.
6. Replace all 8 TRV's and balance valves as the old ones will "definitely" leak.
7. Gas use will be 30% lower than now.
I will of course now obtain a quote from a small, local, company but would like to know if all the above is correct beforehand.
Many thanks in anticipation.

Two bathrooms and a combi can be a struggle. If that would be my house – I would have unvented system all day long.

 

[Nostrum]

Sounds like a load of tosh to me. Unrealistic and quite forceful if how you have described it is as you were told.

For a start, the boiler will not modulate down to 1 kW, more like 7-8.

The digi stat will work, however your timer will currently be a 2 channel, the combi only requires 1.

There is no guarantee that anything will leak, nor is there one to say it won't. I would say its unlikely the trvs will leak, the lockshields might if balanced.

Its fairly reasonable to accept that a low pressure shower isn't designed for a high pressure installation, so I would take that advise. If you keep them linked and they work, well that's a bonus.

30% is possibly achievable when replacing a band G boiler with optimal controls and all radiators balanced to a 20 degree drop.

The difference between your existing and proposed boiler will have a negligible effect on your heating bill, the change in usage behaviour may make a small difference with it being a combi.

Plenty of parts available for the icos for the foreseeable future, so he's talking rubbish there.

All in all, your being told porkies and they don't sound like they know what they are talking about.

 

[HiQ]

Two bathrooms and a combi can be a struggle. If that would be my house – I would have unvented system all day long.

Thank you AlexGas
Your reply has me asking myself - what would be the implications of going for an unvented system without upgrading the main cold supply from current 22mm?

 

[HiQ]

....All in all, your being told porkies and they don't sound like they know what they are talking about.

Oh heck. It is very worrying to think these people are trusted by the majority of our older folk.

 

[newcastle phill]

Those icos are a condensing boiler too. A-sedbuk rated I understand
The only area where you would save is if you hardly use large quantities of hot water and would benefit from the efficiencies of on demand instantaneous hot water instead of heating a large storage cylinder upto temp only to use a little

 

[Ray Stafford]

Hello everyone.

Hello

I would like to remove the need for storage tanks in the loft and stop/minimize the currently excessive boiler short cycling.

Which is the main reason? If you want to get the storage tanks out of the loft, then clearly there has to be substantial changes. However, the boiler cycling can probably addressed much more cost effectively than by changing the system

1. The current boiler is obsolete and rubbish and will fail imminently and cannot be fixed.

It is obsolete, but that means nothing. Lots of products are no longer made, but still fit for many years usage. This model does have a poor reputation, but that does not mean that your specific boiler will break down, and even if it does, the very unreliability of this model means that parts are easily obtained, and engineers have lots of practice diagnosing and repairing them. Nonetheless, "repairable" doesn't necessarily mean "economically repairable"

2. My CH pipes being under the concrete floor will "definitely" leak with the new high pressure combi boiler.

No. The may possibly leak - this is a common problem when low pressure systems are pressurised, but not universal. Something to be aware of as a risk, rather than to be certain of.

3. I will have to disconnect (and separately replace) my Mira LP thermo mixer showers.

What model of Mira shower? Most Mira showers are pretty over engineered, and may well cope with way more than they were designed for. Alternatively you may be able to swap a low pressure cartridge for a high pressure one.

4. My newly installed Drayton digistat +3 will not work with the new system and I will need a new one.

Actually it will, but will have a redundant channel.

5. The new boiler will not short cycle as it modulates from 1W to 30W - I questioned that the technology had improved so much and he confirmed I had not misheard.

See above for my note about cycling. These days this is more often a feature of system design, not boiler design.

6. Replace all 8 TRV's and balance valves as the old ones will "definitely" leak.

See above response to 2). Nothing is definite.

7. Gas use will be 30% lower than now.

I doubt it, although that cylcling issue could be costing you fuel, but you don't need to spend £5500 to fix that.

I will of course now obtain a quote from a small, local, company but would like to know if all the above is correct beforehand.
Many thanks in anticipation.

Its always difficult when you havent seen the job and have only heard one side of the story, but I would be asking this salesman how his commission structure worked, because I think that is driving his advice.

 

[GasmanxxxR1]

I'll do it for £4500 :aureola:

 

[HiQ]

Many thanks Ray Stafford for your comprehensive guidance - I feel I now know what questions to ask of the next quote for the job.
To answer the questions posed in your reply my main requirement is to clear the loft space. The shower is Mira Discovery LP-S.

 

[LPC]

Get a local engineer, recommended to you by someone you know well, to have a look. The large nationwide suppliers are massively overpriced and you will have been spoken to by a man who will have had more training in sales and bullsh*t than he will in heating engineering.

 

[Ray Stafford]

To answer the questions posed in your reply my main requirement is to clear the loft space.

In which case, and from the other information you have provided, then a switch to a combi may well be the answer. As others have said, get a recommend from a relative or friend, or post on this forum section "I am looking for a plumber or gas engineer". There are several well thought of forum members not a million miles from you. Its hard to quote without seeing the job, but I would be surprised if you can't save some money, get a better job, and have a better experience dealing with a genuine engineer.

On the Mira shower, ring Mira on 01242 221221 and ask for technical. Then explain that you are moving from a tank fed system to a combi and will the shower valves be OK. I must admit, I didn't know that there was a specific Low Pressure version of the Discovery. Hopefully they will either cope, or at worst they will make a High pressure cartridge which would minimise the trouble.

 

[happyflyer]

Bognor Regis is posh, they have grapes on the sideboard and no one's ill

 

[kris]

Or post a thread for one of the guys on here to come and price job and give you sound advice, atleast you know theyl be genuine , not on commision and will do an excellent job,

 

[AlexGas]

Thank you AlexGas
Your reply has me asking myself - what would be the implications of going for an unvented system without upgrading the main cold supply from current 22mm?

You just won’t have enough water during peak times. I’d say 22mm mains you have (if it is 22!?) should keep you happy. But if you want to know it for sure, it can be calculated.