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Hi All, we are hoping to have mains gas supplied to our new self build. Main problem is the distance from main pipe & quoted cost. Has any one experiance of remote ( 180m from house ) gas meter installation? Reason for wanting to do this is to reduce cost considerably by gas transporter, but understand a pipe run of this distance will suffer from pressure drop that would be insufficient to work boiler. Is there a way to overcome this or should I just cough up the thousands involved in the quote from SGN!!!
Many thanks.
 
There are plenty companies who can now install gas mains beyond the "normal" carriers. \Do some research and get yourself a cupl of quotes IMO ... Plenty beyond the big boys who can carry 9out this work! Can you dig your own trench?
 
i imagine that most of the cost would be taken up in digging the trench for the new gas line.
 
Many thanks for reply, will do some more searching but it appears SGN has the monoply in our area. The quote we have includes me digging the trench-176.2m- transporter only digging 3.8m & laying pipe plus two fire valves!!!
 
labour is generally the greastest cost I'd imagine with this kind of work. dig it and back fill it must save a fortune imo :)
 
To SteveB. Many thanks for reply, quote we have includes me digging trench, seems only way to reduce cost is to have meter just inside our boundry & get gas engineer to do connections with me doing trench & laying pipe etc. Just worried about pressure drop in length of run.
 
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You won't get enough gas through a 180m pipe run at 20 mbar. Have you thought about using ground source or air source as an alternative to gas?
 
You won't get enough gas through a 180m pipe run at 20 mbar. Have you thought about using ground source or air source as an alternative to gas?

I. Was gonna suggest that

Or you could get a private company in to install the pipeline and the get the utility company in to terminate at each end which would be more cost effective
 
If you like digging why not, [h=1]Ground source heat pumps/http://www.energysavingtrust.org.uk/Generate-your-own-energy/Ground-source-heat-pumps[/h]If not, i would put your money in to [h=1]Air source heat pumps[/h]
[h=1]Air source heat pumps explained - benefits, costs, savings, earnings, suitability[/h]Why send all that money on something that is going to go up and up in price, PV panals? tho its just the look of them, cheap to fit tho when you are a new self build plus money back?

hope this helps.

Darren
 
There should be no problem in installing a pipe from a boundary meter to your house. There must be no more than a 1mbar pressure drop. This can be calculated using a Mears calculator for PE pipe. You needd the total gas load including boiler, gas hobs, gas fires etc. Convert this to metres cubed per hour, and the length of run allowing an extra 0.5m for every bend. The calculator will then tell you the diameter, Any reputable company that lays PE gas pipe will be able to calc. this for you, it only takes about 10 seconds, but they will most likely want "a drink" for doing so. Alternatively if you give them the job, as you need to be gas safe registered, to be able to carry out the electro-fusion jointing that will be required then they would do this calc for "free". Most companies like this are happy to lay into "trench by others" They will make an approved entry into your house and terminate with an isolation valve and leave for your plumber to make final connections, or do it themselves depending on what you want and leave a thread at the new gas meter position in the correct place for the gas supplier.
Have you also considered, to mitigate the cost of a trench, the run of the trench? Do you need a new water service? Would you like lights along the side of your driveway? It sounds quite long. Do you need power to a shed? Are you thinking of an electrically operated gate and intercom? Droping any of these into the trench as its dug kind of offsets some of the cost.
 
Many thanks for reply Mike, as a meter is regulated & 22mm pipework in/out, would it be possible to enlarge pipework after it exits the meter then reduce back to 22mm at boiler so a large volume of gas would be available to boost pressure or is this pie in the sky!!!
Have looked at ground source & air but funds won't extend to this.
 
No problem in increasing the pipe diameter, 'a large volume' won't increase the pressure though.
Another problem I can see is that the total system volume may exceed the limit for normal domestic tightness test qualifications, meaning your normal domestic gas service engineer won't be able to work on it.

Maybe Oil/LPG?
 
you need to get the meter at or very close to the house theres no way round it im afraid gas is high preasure before the meter and low after so losses after the meter are crucial
 
As I said before there is no problem in having your meter at the boundary.
You can increase the pipe size at the meter then reduce down at the house. "Pressure" does not increase but the pressure drop does decrease and this is what you need to do. As I said before, a max of 1mbar is allowed. Now I could tell you that if you have say a 30Kw boiler, a 12Kw fire and a gas hob then your total gas load is about 50Kw. This is very, very roughly 5 m3/hr. For a length of 180m, a Mears calculator says you will get a pressure drop of about 0.3mbar if you lay 63mm pipe. (Well within the limits). You may be able to reduce down to 32mm for a few metres before the house but I would advise against it. Just reduce down immediately before the house to a 1" above ground service entry so that you have a smaller, neater entry pipe and use a 2" entry on its back at the meter end for the gas supplier to connect to. But I have no professional indemnity now nor am I gas safe registered so you must get this checked by a qualified commercial gas engineer/ engineering company, as I am not in the trade any more.
Where abouts in the country are you, I may be able to put you in touch with someone who can carry out this type of work for you.
 
This pipe size (63mm) and volume (approx 0.56m3) put this into the realm of a commercial system.
 
I agree with Mike Jackson 20 mb will not give you adequate supply over 180metres run even if you bump the pipe size up .. but you can talk to the gas company about a higher pressure and use suitable appliance regulators .. worth a shot!
 
I agree with Mike Jackson 20 mb will not give you adequate supply over 180metres run even if you bump the pipe size up .. but you can talk to the gas company about a higher pressure and use suitable appliance regulators .. worth a shot!

Doesn't matter in the pressures. The pressure drop will be too much. Pipe size is everything.

If this wasnt the case. We would all have 15mm running 160kw boilers
 
Doesn't matter in the pressures. The pressure drop will be too much. Pipe size is everything.

If this wasnt the case. We would all have 15mm running 160kw boilers

Sorry but the maximum 1mb pressure drop for domestic installation is based on the premis that the minimum supply pressure at the meter is 19mb this is to guarantee an absolute minimum of 18mb at appliances.

If you have a higher starting pressure from the meter eg 75mb (which is the top end of the Low pressure scale) in the service pipe then you can afford to lose 53mb over the 180 metres in this case .. and then install appliance regulators to control the appliance pressure as required.

Someone with a mears wheel might calculate the pressure drop over 180 metres of (say) 28mm pipe at 75mb
 
Sorry but the maximum 1mb pressure drop for domestic installation is based on the premis that the minimum supply pressure at the meter is 19mb this is to guarantee an absolute minimum of 18mb at appliances.

If you have a higher starting pressure from the meter eg 75mb (which is the top end of the Low pressure scale) in the service pipe then you can afford to lose 53mb over the 180 metres in this case .. and then install appliance regulators to control the appliance pressure as required.

Someone with a mears wheel might calculate the pressure drop over 180 metres of (say) 28mm pipe at 75mb

Can you find the reg that says its acceptable to have a 53mb drop?
 
Sorry but the maximum 1mb pressure drop for domestic installation is based on the premis that the minimum supply pressure at the meter is 19mb this is to guarantee an absolute minimum of 18mb at appliances.

If you have a higher starting pressure from the meter eg 75mb (which is the top end of the Low pressure scale) in the service pipe then you can afford to lose 53mb over the 180 metres in this case .. and then install appliance regulators to control the appliance pressure as required.

Someone with a mears wheel might calculate the pressure drop over 180 metres of (say) 28mm pipe at 75mb

This is effectively what the gas supplier would be doing by fitting the meter and governer in the property but with the huge advantage that they have responsibility for repair or replacement of the pipework up to and including the meter. As a domestic gas safe registered installer I can work on natural gas at 21 +/- 2 mbar and LPG up to around 40 mbar. Working at higher pressures will require someone with a commercial ticket and maintenance costs will be vastly higher. The only sensible way of dealing with this is to have the meter in the property or look at alternative energy sources.
 
I am sorry but, you are not correct. In ANY gas system, domestic or commercial, pipe sizing is everything. In this case you may possibly be able to get the gas supplier to give you slightly higher pressure at the meter, but only up to 23mbar. In a commercial system once the starting pressure is over 23mbar you are allowed, not "can afford", a pressure DROP of 10%. So a system that has a 53mbar pressure drop requires a start pressure of 530mbar (just over 0.5bar)
 
Not you, wheeto. I agree a commercial gas engineer is more expensive, maybe not "vastly" though, and I agree it would be easier if the meter is at the house, but as I have said, not essential.
 
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