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Discuss New h/w and c/h system for 1890 stone-built end of terrace in the Plumbing Jobs | The Job-board area at Plumbers Forums

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lewisgriffy

[Apologies if this thread is in the wrong forum - i think it includes questions related to several!] I'm trying to get my head around the hot water and central heating system which will best suit my needs for a second/holiday home (which may be let) which used to be my grandmother's and is 150 miles away from where I live. Any advice you might offer me will help me specify my requirements to a heating engineer (although I'll keep an open mind to their suggestions also). The substantial (by my standards!) double-fronted house's current h/w system includes a converted oil-fired Rayburn (which hasn't run since my grandmother passed away three and a half years ago) with back boiler which provides hot water to a cylinder on the first floor. The cylinder also has an immersion heater. The house has never been centrally heated apart from a single radiator fed from the Rayburn and several electric storage heaters (which I've thrown out). Since I have half a tank of heating oil, I've booked an engineer to get the Rayburn working on low over the winter, after which I'll decide what to do with it. The radiator is between the Rayburn and the cylinder. I haven't worked out whether the Rayburn heats the water in the cylinder directly or indirectly. If directly, I presume the water is replenished to the back boiler from the cold water cistern in the attic via the cylinder (I guess this would mean the hot water for a bath would have passed through the radiator?) If indirectly, then the radiator would be part of a closed system replenished by a direct feed pipe from the cold water cistern (there's no separate header tank). To the future I intend installing a new gas-fired boiler and replacing the hot water cylinder with a larger 200L one as part of a vented system. I'd be interested in your suggestions as to whether I could/should keep the Rayburn hot water connection to the cylinder as a back-up to the gas boiler or not bother (I'd also have an immersion heater in the cylinder). At present, I'm tending towards a Worcester Greenstar FS 42CDi which will need to heat 17 radiators and 5 towel rails (based on room sizes, I used an online BTU/kW calculator to work out I'll need up to 40050 BTU/hr or 11775kW). There will be 4 showers (one of which will be negative head in the attic), 1 bath, 5 wash basins, 2 sinks, a washing machine and a dishwasher. I'd like to know your thoughts on whether this boiler (or others) would do. One of my minimum requirements would be to have the capacity to have 3 simultaneous showers at flow rates of around 15l/min each (via 22mm pipe to the mixers). I've contacted a pump specialist (pumpexpress) who suggested two of the twin 3crm80 stainless steel pump brio on their website, one for the hot feed (to all outlets) and one for the cold. Does anyone have any advice regarding these pumps (or similar)? I don't mind paying more for components that will give me what I'm after (quality and reliability would be assumed to be part of the higher cost), although I'm obviously conscious of the replacement costs should they fail in future. I also like the thought of controlling room temperatures remotely through the internet maybe using Heat Genius' products (please see their website) - does anyone have any experience of this type of control? Although with the above, I've referred to a vented system, I recently visited a larger house than mine, served by a Vaillant unvented boiler/cylinder, with a larger number of radiators/towel radiators, but a similar number of outlets - I'd also appreciate your thoughts on whether an unvented system (assuming a decent mains water pressure) would serve my needs (e.g. 3 simultaneous showers) as well as/better than a vented system. Reliability, contingency, capacity, space and controllability are my other main considerations. Many, many thanks in advance for your advice - this is a rare opportunity to put in a system from scratch - I'd like it to be the best it can be for the next 20 or so years - tall order?! Ifan.
 
just get 3 quotes fm local installers specifying yr needs. go for unvented system, avoid pumps like the plague and forget icorporating a rayburn unless you want to have a rayburn as the only source of heating ie boiler/cooker set up. if you want a boiler to last 20 yrs plus, go for oil!
 
Many thanks. I notice you're in North Devon (this property's within a conservation area in a seaside town in Pembrokeshire). Is it likely I'll need Building Regs if I go down the unvented route? Apart from servicing the boiler annually, would a service also normally incorporate the unvented cylinder as well? Can I ask why you'd avoid pumps on the vented system?
 
You want it maintenance free. So unvented and gas boiler with large rads and lots of insulation. Oil is expensive in comparison to gas. Get boiler serviced and safety check annually.

Rayburn nice touch but not very responsive in second home/ holiday home. Look at renewables though!
 
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Thanks to you too Ermintrude. The owners of the house I visited got the water board to mole under their property in order to increase the bore of their mains supply to 32mm (would that be right?) and I assume the same diameter was used all the way up to their boiler in the attic. In this case would I still be advised to tee off the mains to supply the kitchen sink and cold-feed appliances? Regarding the 3 simultaneous showers at ~15L/min flow rate each, should this be possible (assuming a decent mains pressure) provided I took 22mm hot/cold plumbing/minimised 90 degree bends to the shower mixers (I take it I'd be looking for high pressure thermostatic mixers for an unvented system)? Am I correct in thinking an unvented system, as it operates at mains pressure, will be able to supply water to a bathroom that's located above the cylinder? I'm forced to renovate the house in phases as it isn't completely empty, and there are many building-related issues to resolve (several of which I'm probably not even aware of yet!), and this leads me to a possibly cheeky question, which is certainly not meant to offend as I have every respect for anyone who can work safely with gas. Is a GSR engineer likely to take offence if I ask him simply to route the gas plumbing from the meter into the house, install a boiler and cylinder and connect up to the gas, allowing me to get my builder to complete the bulk of the plumbing to radiators and outlets as he works from room to room? I'd be asking the GSR engineer to return to plumb the gas to the cooker hob at a later date.
 
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