New Pan/Cistern problems

[blinkinhek]

First off ... I am not a plumber, and not even someone with any expertise in plumbing at all ... I do struggle with the DIY jobs that involve water and pipework 🙂

Anyway, I did have someone install a new toilet pan and cistern. Although this flushes (at least water comes into the pan from the cistern), it leaves a growing mass of toilet paper which even second and third flushes does not get rid of. The only time the whole smelly mass is removed is if I tip a bucket of water down the pan, or if I leave it to eventually disintegrate and then flush.

Not a pleasant situation at all. The plumber has replaced the 'gubbins' in the body of the cistern, set the water level to the maximum, and adjusted some outlet volume setting. None of it has made any difference. The button which operates the toilet has a single main button with a very small button off-centre in the main button. I thought at first that this was a full flush/half flush button, but the plumber has said that this smaller button is there simply to allow the bigger button to 'pop out' when you release it.

The plumber did state that modern toilets were designed to use low volumes of water and that I should expect the way it currently behaves.

Anyway, I cannot believe that the manufacturers would design a toilet that did not always flush all the debris in the pan away .... surely not ???

I am getting depressed with this as we now have to keep a bucket in the bathroom ....

Any thoughts or advice would be much appreciated.

TIA

 

[GreenArmy]

When you flush, try holding in the button for a few seconds (i.e 4 or 5 seconds) does this make difference?

 

[blinkinhek]

When you flush, try holding in the button for a few seconds (i.e 4 or 5 seconds) does this make difference?

hi Mark!
I do hold the button in until all the flush is complete ... and so no, this doesn't help.
The water just seems to flow down the sides of the pan, leaving everything clumped in the middle. In replacing the pan and cistern, I kept the position and orientation the same so the plumber did not have to change anything in the layout of the waste pipe.

 

[REDSAW]

is it one of those cheap toilets from the sheds, far eastern origin?.
i am sure they are restricted in the s bend of the toilet traps, had a few latelyy.

 

[blinkinhek]

is it one of those cheap toilets from the sheds, far eastern origin?.
i am sure they are restricted in the s bend of the toilet traps, had a few latelyy.

The pan has 'bellavista' marked on it. It is actually part of a complete bathroom installation by a well-known national company. I have raised it as an issue with them, but I need to get a better understanding of the problem (and better armed for when I state that there is either an issue with the design, the installation or actually the toilet itself is a bad design).

They have already stated that they have not had these problems with this model before.

Many thanks.

 

[rmbp]

Hi, Mate I've got exactly the same problem, I renewed my complete bathroom. I could've had a decent looking cheap suite from a local showroom belonging to someone I know, but no my wife wanted another to replace with the same expensive brand of sanitary ware that she chose last time. And what do you know the concealed cistern and back to wall pan won't bloody flush whatever I do. So its back to the drawing board with this one for now. I'll keep you posted with the outcome.

 

[blinkinhek]

Hi, Mate I've got exactly the same problem, I renewed my complete bathroom. I could've had a decent looking cheap suite from a local showroom belonging to someone I know, but no my wife wanted another to replace with the same expensive brand of sanitary ware that she chose last time. And what do you know the concealed cistern and back to wall pan won't bloody flush whatever I do. So its back to the drawing board with this one for now. I'll keep you posted with the outcome.

Thanks for that!
Please do keep me posted.
The company have replaced, for the second time, the cistern internals, but it has made little difference.

 

[stevetheplumber]

biggest problem is the small flush sizes were working with now if it flushes with a gallon of water out of a bucket then its the pan/cysten design rather than the way its plumbed in

 

[Plamber]

Can you adjust the flow rate on the siphon? there may be a way to adjust it. have you looked in the cistern when you flush it? if you pull it up manually by your hand and it works the problem wil be with the button mechanism.

 

[blinkinhek]

Can you adjust the flow rate on the siphon? there may be a way to adjust it. have you looked in the cistern when you flush it? if you pull it up manually by your hand and it works the problem wil be with the button mechanism.

There is a slider, which originally had been set to its lowest flow rate, and so the fitter adjusted this to its maximum flow rate. We did think this would fix the problem, but it didn't unfortunately.

 

[oldplumber]

some low level pans can be lower than the soil pipe and the "plumbers " answer is to fit an offset multiquick type pan connector with the offset upwards which really reduces the suction effect on flushing. If this is the case youy may have to raise the pan on an upstand to get the outfall levels correct in order to allow for correct flushing of the pan. It doesnt take much difference to cause a pan to fail to work or work well!!!😉

 

[pault123]

If its the macdee DVA0200/0300 system (google it) you can also adjust the height of the inlet valve and overflow connection to allow more water to be stored in the cistern which will probably help

 

[blinkinhek]

If its the macdee DVA0200/0300 system (google it) you can also adjust the height of the inlet valve and overflow connection to allow more water to be stored in the cistern which will probably help

Thanks for that!!! You are right, I did the search, and yes, the system installed is a Macdee Duo Compact Plastic Cistern CDC52CP, and this has a CDF01CP 2-button front panel. The strange thing is that the fitter said this was not a dual flush system....

I must admit, I can't figure out how the 2 flush thing works (do I press the small button for a small flush and the big button for a big flush??) Doesn't seem to make a great deal of difference.

I must assume the fitter has ensured that we have the maximum volume of water in the tank .... at least I hope he has.
CDF01CP
CDF01CP

 

[traineedrip]

Has the button been replaced along with the innards? Im wondering if its stuck on quick flush?

How does the water run into the pan? Should be a nice equal flow and fast. Some pans can have blocked flush holes.

 

[Plumbstar Tom]

Sorry All I ahve not posted for a while, been to pre occupied to read a full thread and construct a useful reply but I am back now... with a vengance

I have a feeling that this is a eurpean toilet for Europeans who dont put used toilet paper in the pan, instead they place it in a bin next to it. I would be looking along the lines of a new pan and cisternty to match all paid for by who ever specified the installer, Hopefully not you

 

[bac]

Could be that the pan has been cast wrong, we had the same problem with a well known brand, and after extensively checking for other faults, only rectified the problem with a new pan.

Good luck with solving it.

 

[blinkinhek]

Re: New Pan/Cistern problems - resolution

Could be that the pan has been cast wrong, we had the same problem with a well known brand, and after extensively checking for other faults, only rectified the problem with a new pan.

Good luck with solving it.

The problem has been resolved this week ... by, as you suggested, replacing the pan. It is the same model, but the flow of water is now massive, and flushes everything away (even better than my original old toilet).
I have felt and looked under the rim using a mirror on both the pans, and cannot see any blocked holes, so I suspect that somewhere internal there must be restrictions /blockages.

What upsets me is that it has taken over 4 months for this major company to accept there was a problem and to rectify it. I think they hoped I would eventually go away. Because these things are never 'one-offs' there must be many other customers who have this problem, and who have accepted the company's statement that 'this is the way these low-volume flush toilets work' and 'don't blame us, blame these water regulations' (all statements I have had from this company). I won't name the company, but it begins with 'D' and ends in 'n'

Thanks for all your help!!! 🙂

 

[BenC]

glad you got it sorted the company wouldn't be dolphin would it, if so they are a bunch of arse bandits, my old man used to work for them he left within 6 weeks as they treat their employee's like crap and dont give a **** about customers once they have taken your money. most the people that work for them when he was with them wernt actualy plumbers, alot were actualy taxi drivers wanting extra work during the day, all you had to do on the induction trainning was put about 6 tiles on abit of plywood and apparently that qualifys you to go fit a bathroom. they didnt even do any plumbing on the trainning just asked if you could do it.