New toilet pan not clearing

[Timski86]

Hi All,

I'm new to the forum and looking for a bit of help with a new toilet I'm fitting, I'm quite a proficient DIYer but I could use some expert advice with this problem!

I am replacing the toilet pan in my flat as when I had the bathroom done I had a wall mounted pan fitted but I was never very pleased with how the builder fixed it to the wall so I have now decided to fit a floor mounted one. The toilet backs onto a utility cupboard where the soil pipe is connected by a flexible connector to a more or less horizontal pipe which runs for about half a meter before going into the main down pipe.

The old toilet never had any issues with flushing and would almost always clear it in one go, the new one feels like it has a very strong flush but it seems to be struggling to push all the waste through, a couple of things I think might be the issue.

1 - The waste outlet of the toilet is lower than the old wall hung unit meaning its having a harder time pushing the waste through the soil pipe.

2 - The corrugated connector pipe is holding up the flow and should be replaced with proper solid pipework.

3 - There is an issue with the design of the toilet.

This is my first time dealing with anything related to soil pipework so any advice or input would be greatly appreciated!

Thanks,

Tim

 

[oz-plumber]

1. Looks to have descent fall from pan outlet to drain.

2. Flexible connectors are for builders & DIY'ers.

3. Most probably a pan issue because everything else looks passable.

Can you adjust the amount of flush from the cistern.

It could be a water saving pan 4.5 ltr main flush.

Typical of water saving pans - you have to flush twice to achieve the desired results. Meaning you use more water in the long term

 

[snowhead]

Lift the white pushfit elbow off and flush and watch the water flow, it may be backing up in the soil pipe.
It's not unusual for old pan connector seals or temporary plastic bags seals to get stuck.

 

[Timski86]

Thanks for the quick replies guys!

I did a quick test with it by flushing it and pouring another 3 litres of water into the cistern as it was flushing meaning it had approx 9 litres through it and it didn't clear so I'm concluding it isn't a flush volume issue.

I have just been looking at push fit soil pipes and it doesn't look like a difficult job for me to replace whats there with a 135 degree elbow connecting to the pan going down into a 90 on the horizontal pipe and getting rid of the corrugated connection. If I do that and it doesnt improve I think it would be safe to conclude its a bad pan design yes? It is a rimless pan so I don't know if that makes a difference?

Thanks

 

[Timski86]

This is the pan, it doesnt say anything about being water saving, if anything I would say there is more water in the bottom of it than in the previous one.

Florence Rimless Back to Wall Toilet & Soft Close Seat | soak.com

soak.com

 

[centralheatking]

Just as a quick check. Get an old fashioned mop..the string one
wet it then plunge the big pan vigourously with plenty of water
the hydraulic traction you will get is enormous. Its a cheap way of clearing any debris that might have gone down. The fall looks ok
flexis are a flow restriction as the internal bore is not smooth.
centralheatking

 

[Timski86]

I'm pretty certain there's no blockage, I can pour a whole bucket of water down the pan and it doesn't back up in the slightest, it just flows straight down.

Thanks

 

[snowhead]

Is the Cistern matched to the pan or were they bought separately.?
What type of syphon is in the cistern?

 

[rpm]

Have you tried the suggestion in post #3 yet?
Water saving relates to the cistern not the water in the pan.

 

[Timski86]

no I'm using the existing cistern, I didn't realise that could make a difference. Its a push button type dual flush, although the dual flush doesnt work it just lets it all go every time.

 

[Sharp Point]

It’s the design of your pan, the market is flooded with poor quality products.

 

[Timski86]

Sorry I didnt understand this at first, you mean remove the washing machine pipe and watch the inside of the pipe? What should I be looking for?

Thanks

Tim

 

[Timski86]

It’s the design of your pan, the market is flooded with poor quality products.

Very disappointing if this is the case, where would you recommend going for a quality unit?

Thanks,

Tim

 

[snowhead]

Sorry I didnt understand this at first, you mean remove the washing machine pipe and watch the inside of the pipe? What should I be looking for?

Yes, to see if the water from the WC is flowing past or backing up

 

[centralheatking]

Very disappointing if this is the case, where would you recommend going for a quality unit?

Thanks,

Tim

Homebase do a close coupled set for £45 and it really is good
a proper washdown pan I have quite a few as I have holiday lets as well. Now that is the type you want...go see one photo it then get one with a rear entry spigot but as close to the design you can find
in fact here is a piccy. Never a brown moment with this type and saves. fortune on bog brushes from Asda. centralheatking
Ohh for the days of double syphonic pans hey

 

[Timski86]

Yes, to see if the water from the WC is flowing past or backing up

It looks to me to be flowing nice and fast through there, no backing up but that's just with water, I'll see that happens next time I use it in anger

It sounds like the conclusion is bad pan, would you say its still worth replacing that ribbed pipe with solid just as a matter of good practice?

 

[Stu-B]

whats the pipe like outside? does it have a vent?

 

[Deleted member 32524]

Maybe the flush pipe is not at the correct angle causing the flow of water in to the pan to not flow where is should. I had it a couple of weeks ago, same set up as you, customer says toilet is really hard to get number 2s away. Went round noticed a pencil line on pipe pused it back into place and the water flow in bowl was now back to effectively pushing paper etc through. Would be much better to run soil pipe to behind toilet and get rid of flexi.

 

[Timski86]

whats the pipe like outside? does it have a vent?

It's an 18 story block of flats so I assume the pipe is well vented at the top, also the old toilet had no trouble.

Maybe the flush pipe is not at the correct angle causing the flow of water in to the pan to not flow where is should. I had it a couple of weeks ago, same set up as you, customer says toilet is really hard to get number 2s away. Went round noticed a pencil line on pipe pused it back into place and the water flow in bowl was now back to effectively pushing paper etc through. Would be much better to run soil pipe to behind toilet and get rid of flexi.

I didn't realise the flush pipe was so critical, I will do a better job of getting this horizontal tomorrow as I probably didn't do the best job.

I have bought solid pipe parts to push together to replace the flexi pipe so I'll try that tomorrow too, one question, with the way I think they will fit together I think I will need a short straight section which will only angle down slightly connecting to the pan first, is this a no no? Should it go straight into a downwards section?

Thanks again for all the help everyone, this is a really great community!

 

[Chuck]

Use a spirit-level to check that the pan has been installed level (front-to-back and side-to-side). Doesn't need to be far out for performance to be impaired.