NEW YEAR PLANS for younger engineers

[centralheatking]

50% of all GSR engineers are over 50 years of age. 10% of these engineers are intending to retire in the next decade. There is an impending skill shortage. Mix in there will be a massive scheme to convert existing domestic natural gas appliances to hydrogen enhanced natural gas there will be massive demand for new engineers.
My uncles did the town gas to natural gas conversions years ago with 'Press' they all paid off their houses
in a couple of years. I am too old. centralheatking

 

[Scott_D]

There doesn’t seem to be a shortage of gas engineers.
Every other van has the logo on

 

[centralheatking]

50% of all 'Registered Professional Gas Engineer' engineers are over 50 years of age. 10% of these engineers are intending to retire in the next decade. There is an impending skill shortage. Mix in there will be a massive scheme to convert existing domestic natural gas appliances to hydrogen enhanced natural gas there will be massive demand for new engineers.
My uncles did the town gas to natural gas conversions years ago with 'Press' they all paid off their houses
in a couple of years. I am too old. centralheatking

Keele University has launched a 20% Hydrogen Enhanced Natural Gas Supply on its campus for all cooking and heating....the revolution is just begining. centralheating

 

[CHRISX]

50% of all 'Registered Professional Gas Engineer' engineers are over 50 years of age. 10% of these engineers are intending to retire in the next decade. There is an impending skill shortage. Mix in there will be a massive scheme to convert existing domestic natural gas appliances to hydrogen enhanced natural gas there will be massive demand for new engineers.
My uncles did the town gas to natural gas conversions years ago with 'Press' they all paid off their houses
in a couple of years. I am too old. centralheatking

Hello centralheatingking,

The most surprising statistic that I read about the age ranges of Gas Engineers / Gas Installers was from Gas Safe last year where they stated that only 5.9% of registered Gas Engineers / Gas Installers were under 35 years old.

Chris

 

[OffshoreGas]

I don't think there is ever really a skills shortage in any trade, its generally that people aren't willing to work for what the big companies are willing to pay.

 

[CHRISX]

I don't think there is ever really a skills shortage in any trade, its generally that people aren't willing to work for what the big companies are willing to pay.

Hello OffshoreGas,

The Gas Safe statistic of only 5.9% of Gas Engineers / Gas Installers being aged under 35 is obviously correct because it came from an audit of the Gas Safe register so that is a definite indicator of a future Skills shortage in the Gas Industry.

That obviously means that over 94% of registered Gas Engineers / Gas Installers are over 35 years old.

In the HVP online magazine article [October 2019] where I read the 5.9% statistic a paragraph also stated that a survey found that many Gas Engineers are having to retire at around the age of 55 years old due to the physical demands of the job and that apart from the 5.9% of under 35`s young people are not entering the industry to replace those retiring.

Chris

 

[centralheatking]

Hello OffshoreGas,

The Gas Safe statistic of only 5.9% of Gas Engineers / Gas Installers being aged under 35 is obviously correct because it came from an audit of the Gas Safe register so that is a definite indicator of a future Skills shortage in the Gas Industry.

That obviously means that over 94% of registered Gas Engineers / Gas Installers are over 35 years old.

In the HVP online magazine article [October 2019] where I read the 5.9% statistic a paragraph also stated that a survey found that many Gas Engineers are having to retire at around the age of 55 years old due to the physical demands of the job and that apart from the 5.9% of under 35`s young people are not entering the industry to replace those retiring.

Chris

This will have massive impact on any governments plans to green up especially borders are closing to free movement of labour. This next decade is going to be fascinating. centralheatking

 

[OffshoreGas]

Hello OffshoreGas,

The Gas Safe statistic of only 5.9% of Gas Engineers / Gas Installers being aged under 35 is obviously correct because it came from an audit of the Gas Safe register so that is a definite indicator of a future Skills shortage in the Gas Industry.

That obviously means that over 94% of registered Gas Engineers / Gas Installers are over 35 years old.

In the HVP online magazine article [October 2019] where I read the 5.9% statistic a paragraph also stated that a survey found that many Gas Engineers are having to retire at around the age of 55 years old due to the physical demands of the job and that apart from the 5.9% of under 35`s young people are not entering the industry to replace those retiring.

Chris

Some interesting stats, GasSafe published a report a while ago which basically showed the age profile was largely staying the same, those competent to work on gas appliances have always tended to be older. If anything by the graph in it they are getting slightly younger

https://www.gassaferegister.co.uk/media/2490/decade-review.pdf

I still think the number of people in any occupation is governed by wages. You could have a fairly big influx of people from related trades if wages were high enough to attract them.

 

[OffshoreGas]

This will have massive impact on any governments plans to green up especially borders are closing to free movement of labour. This next decade is going to be fascinating. centralheatking

Do you not think they will de skill a lot of the green energy stuff? In the same way when the big companies were rinsing solar PV they employed some electrically competent people but far more semi skilled labour.

 

[centralheatking]

Do you not think they will de skill a lot of the green energy stuff? In the same way when the big companies were rinsing solar PV they employed some electrically competent people but far more semi skilled labour.

I think your analysis is correct, de-skilling might well be the way fwds. I am coming across many more
factory produced component buildings which are essentially just plugged in on site, when a component fails eg Boiler they just dis connect replace and it goes where ever .....back to the robot factory to be dis assembled. I think we will be ok for next decade or so as there are about 20m legacy systems in the UK alone hanging on walls. Its still going to be exciting being involved. CHKing

 

[OffshoreGas]

I think your analysis is correct, de-skilling might well be the way fwds. I am coming across many more
factory produced component buildings which are essentially just plugged in on site, when a component fails eg Boiler they just dis connect replace and it goes where ever ...back to the robot factory to be dis assembled. I think we will be ok for next decade or so as there are about 20m legacy systems in the UK alone hanging on walls. Its still going to be exciting being involved. CHKing

Completely agree, I don’t think the domestic heating engineer is going anywhere any time soon. The work might just be a little bit different. I can’t see any realistic chance of a wholesale move away from gas in the next 10 years, 25 maybe.

 

[centralheatking]

Completely agree, I don’t think the domestic heating engineer is going anywhere any time soon. The work might just be a little bit different. I can’t see any realistic chance of a wholesale move away from gas in the next 10 years, 25 maybe.

With the Hydrogen enhanced NG roll out my sons all in this industry are going to be ok. Look up Keele University they have just put a 20% H2 enhanced NG system on line for all their domestic heating and cooking...the kw output is good and emissions well in line. centralheatking

 

[CHRISX]

Some interesting stats, GasSafe published a report a while ago which basically showed the age profile was largely staying the same, those competent to work on gas appliances have always tended to be older. If anything by the graph in it they are getting slightly younger

https://www.Avoid linking here.co.uk/media/2490/decade-review.pdf

I still think the number of people in any occupation is governed by wages. You could have a fairly big influx of people from related trades if wages were high enough to attract them.

Hello again OffshoreGas,

As I have been writing about registered Gas Engineers / Gas Installers and with regard to Plumbers, Pipefitters, Electricians etc. becoming registered Gas Installers - I would have thought that most people who were interested in becoming a registered Gas Installer from those and other trades would have arranged to take the Gas ACOPS / ACS some years ago when it was possible for anyone to just book Training courses and ACS Assessments at a Training & Assessment Centre.

When I was taking re-assessments during those years there were people from many other jobs taking Training & Assessments in an adjoining classroom / practical bays - from Minicab drivers - Milkman - Supermarket workers - Building Labourers and other jobs - having spoken to some they all thought that becoming a Gas Engineer was a ticket to riches.

There was no legislation in place to prevent anyone just booking Training & Assessment at Colleges and other Training Centres and with the Open Book scenario of the Assessments almost all of those people passed the Core Gas Safety - I was told this by the College Gas ACOPS / ACS Tutors / Assessors.

As You probably know that is not the case now.

And for quite a few years anyone - including Plumbers, Pipefitters and other trades - trying to enter the Gas Industry / become a registered Gas Installer have to produce quite an extensive / varied Portfolio of evidence of Training in Gas Works [including photographs of their work] which has to be at least supervised, checked and signed off by a registered Gas Engineer / Gas Installer before they would be accepted for Training and Assessment at a Training Centre.

I would expect a responsible Training & Assessment Centre will check that the Portfolio is genuine before allowing any person to enrol for Training & Assessment which of course must begin with Core Gas Safety / CCN1 Training & Assessment before any Appliance categories can be taken.

Please don`t be offended that I have described this as You probably know the procedure - but for other readers of this thread I have described the above because it is not as simple for anyone to just decide - Lets book some Gas Training & Assessment and become a Gas Installer.

Because of the above I don`t think that for example a lot of Plumbers would apply to become registered Gas Installers if there were higher wages unless the amount for Gas work was much more than they were earning.

In my opinion existing Plumbers who have not done so are either put off by the amount of knowledge required to pass the Gas ACS - the cost of doing so plus the yearly registration fees and the 5 yearly re-assessments & costs OR they are quite happy continuing with Plumbing without the perceived hassle of being a registered Gas Installer / Gas Engineer.

Chris

 

[OffshoreGas]

Hello again OffshoreGas,

As I have been writing about registered Gas Engineers / Gas Installers and with regard to Plumbers, Pipefitters, Electricians etc. becoming registered Gas Installers - I would have thought that most people who were interested in becoming a registered Gas Installer from those and other trades would have arranged to take the Gas ACOPS / ACS some years ago when it was possible for anyone to just book Training courses and ACS Assessments at a Training & Assessment Centre.

When I was taking re-assessments during those years there were people from many other jobs taking Training & Assessments in an adjoining classroom / practical bays - from Minicab drivers - Milkman - Supermarket workers - Building Labourers and other jobs - having spoken to some they all thought that becoming a Gas Engineer was a ticket to riches.

As You probably know that is not the case now.

And for quite a few years anyone - including Plumbers, Pipefitters and other trades - trying to enter the Gas Industry / become a registered Gas Installer have to produce quite an extensive / varied Portfolio of evidence of Training in Gas Works [including photographs of their work] which has to be at least supervised, checked and signed off by a registered Gas Engineer / Gas Installer before they would be accepted for Training and Assessment at a Training Centre.

I would expect a responsible Training & Assessment Centre will check that the Portfolio is genuine before allowing any person to enrol for Training & Assessment which of course must begin with Core Gas Safety / CCN1 Training & Assessment before any Appliance categories can be taken.

Please don`t be offended that I have described this as You probably know the procedure - but for other readers of this thread I have described the above because it is not as simple for someone to just decide Lets book some Gas Training & Assessment and become a Gas Installer.

Because of the above I don`t think that for example a lot of Plumbers would apply to become registered Gas Installers if there were higher wages unless the amount for Gas work was much more than they were earning.

In my opinion existing Plumbers who have not done so are either put off by the amount of knowledge required to pass the Gas ACS - the cost of doing so plus the yearly registration fees and the 5 yearly re-assessments & costs OR they are quite happy continuing with Plumbing without the perceived hassle of being a registered Gas Installer / Gas Engineer.

Chris

I went through the gas pathway scheme not that long ago and found the vast majority of the skills if gained from working on gas turbines and industrial control systems to be directly transferable. I’m sure there are lots of people in the same boat.

I still think it’s a viable career option for many related trades. The wages are comparable to say a primary school teacher or nurse both of which would require you to spend 3+ years at university. The training is a little frustrating but not really a show stopper, it took about 6 months part time to compete all the elements. I’d say that wasn’t far from say an HGV driver in terms of time and cost, which is genes paid a lot less.

Is it really an aging trade or is it that gas fitters have always tended to be older?

 

[centralheatking]

Hello again OffshoreGas,

As I have been writing about registered Gas Engineers / Gas Installers and with regard to Plumbers, Pipefitters, Electricians etc. becoming registered Gas Installers - I would have thought that most people who were interested in becoming a registered Gas Installer from those and other trades would have arranged to take the Gas ACOPS / ACS some years ago when it was possible for anyone to just book Training courses and ACS Assessments at a Training & Assessment Centre.

When I was taking re-assessments during those years there were people from many other jobs taking Training & Assessments in an adjoining classroom / practical bays - from Minicab drivers - Milkman - Supermarket workers - Building Labourers and other jobs - having spoken to some they all thought that becoming a Gas Engineer was a ticket to riches.

There was no legislation in place to prevent anyone just booking Training & Assessment at Colleges and other Training Centres and with the Open Book scenario of the Assessments almost all of those people passed the Core Gas Safety - I was told this by the College Gas ACOPS / ACS Tutors / Assessors.

As You probably know that is not the case now.

And for quite a few years anyone - including Plumbers, Pipefitters and other trades - trying to enter the Gas Industry / become a registered Gas Installer have to produce quite an extensive / varied Portfolio of evidence of Training in Gas Works [including photographs of their work] which has to be at least supervised, checked and signed off by a registered Gas Engineer / Gas Installer before they would be accepted for Training and Assessment at a Training Centre.

I would expect a responsible Training & Assessment Centre will check that the Portfolio is genuine before allowing any person to enrol for Training & Assessment which of course must begin with Core Gas Safety / CCN1 Training & Assessment before any Appliance categories can be taken.

Please don`t be offended that I have described this as You probably know the procedure - but for other readers of this thread I have described the above because it is not as simple for anyone to just decide - Lets book some Gas Training & Assessment and become a Gas Installer.

Because of the above I don`t think that for example a lot of Plumbers would apply to become registered Gas Installers if there were higher wages unless the amount for Gas work was much more than they were earning.

In my opinion existing Plumbers who have not done so are either put off by the amount of knowledge required to pass the Gas ACS - the cost of doing so plus the yearly registration fees and the 5 yearly re-assessments & costs OR they are quite happy continuing with Plumbing without the perceived hassle of being a registered Gas Installer / Gas Engineer.

Chris

Hi Chris, I like your approach and you seem to be contributing from an overview position a little bit like myself...I am very embedded in innovation, design, protection, prototype, production and sales of a number of innovative products..inc the next decade of HVAC and Heating .I like your opinions and overview maybe PM me or reply
regards Rob Foster ...centralheatking. Aquarius Plumbing Innovations 2006 (Api 2006)

 

[CHRISX]

I went through the gas pathway scheme not that long ago and found the vast majority of the skills if gained from working on gas turbines and industrial control systems to be directly transferable. I’m sure there are lots of people in the same boat.

I still think it’s a viable career option for many related trades. The wages are comparable to say a primary school teacher or nurse both of which would require you to spend 3+ years at university. The training is a little frustrating but not really a show stopper, it took about 6 months part time to compete all the elements. I’d say that wasn’t far from say an HGV driver in terms of time and cost, which is genes paid a lot less.

Is it really an aging trade or is it that gas fitters have always tended to be older?

Hello again OffshoreGas,

Thanks for your reply.

As You wrote - with some your Off Shore Gas expertise and associated knowledge being transferable and the fact that you obviously have a Gas Engineers way of thinking I am not surprised that you were able to complete the Gas ACS Training and Assessments.

I hope that You will not mind me asking - did you do the Domestic ACS Training and Assessments or the Non Domestic ?

I agree that there are a few Trades where practical skills and associated technical knowledge would be a great asset in learning about Gas / Gas works and completing ACS Assessments with Plumbing, Pipefitting, Vehicle Mechanics and Electrics / Electronics perhaps being to the fore ?

I know that there will be some very academically clever people out there who also have great DIY skills which would seem make them good candidates for Gas ACS Training and Assessment but obviously the Pipework Installation / Jointing side of Gas works is very important and the skill of working Safely is gained / enhanced by experience.

However I think that if a person does not at least know a Gas Safe registered Gas Engineer who is prepared to have them with them to Train and Supervise the Portfolio tasks / Sign off each task as completed safely & correctly the prospective new Gas Installer would definitely find it very difficult / probably almost impossible to be accepted at most reputable Training and Assessment Centres.

Am I still correct in that at least a quite varied Portfolio [including photos of each task] with Gas work tasks trained / mentored / witnessed & signed off by a Gas Safe registered Gas Engineer / Gas Installer is a prerequisite before being accepted for Gas ACS Training & Assessment ?

Regarding your question / our comments on whether Gas Engineering is an ageing trade - apart from the statistics mentioned on this thread I have to admit that every Gas Engineer / Gas Installer that I know / have met over the last 10 years has been over 40 - the majority well over 40.

Chris
[automerge]1577991561[/automerge]

Hi Chris, I like your approach and you seem to be contributing from an overview position a little bit like myself...I am very embedded in innovation, design, protection, prototype, production and sales of a number of innovative products..inc the next decade of HVAC and Heating .I like your opinions and overview maybe PM me or reply
regards Rob Foster ...centralheatking. Aquarius Plumbing Innovations 2006 (Api 2006)

Hello Rob,

Thanks for your reply and for the compliment.

I do try to take an overview on most subjects and I have well over 50 years of experience in the Heating, Plumbing & Gas Industries - however I am not far from retirement so I will not really be involved much in the next decade / with new developments in Domestic Heating etc.

I enjoy reading your posts and often look for your Forum name on the list of threads to go to your messages.

Chris

P.S: I don`t know why my message to You Rob has been Automerged - I even tried to Edit it off my message to Member OffshoreGas and do another reply to You but that was also Automerged ?

 

[centralheatking]

Hello again OffshoreGas,

Thanks for your reply.

As You wrote - with some your Off Shore Gas expertise and associated knowledge being transferable and the fact that you obviously have a Gas Engineers way of thinking I am not surprised that you were able to complete the Gas ACS Training and Assessments.

I hope that You will not mind me asking - did you do the Domestic ACS Training and Assessments or the Non Domestic ?

I agree that there are a few Trades where practical skills and associated technical knowledge would be a great asset in learning about Gas / Gas works and completing ACS Assessments with Plumbing, Pipefitting, Vehicle Mechanics and Electrics / Electronics perhaps being to the fore ?

I know that there will be some very academically clever people out there who also have great DIY skills which would seem make them good candidates for Gas ACS Training and Assessment but obviously the Pipework Installation / Jointing side of Gas works is very important and the skill of working Safely is gained / enhanced by experience.

However I think that if a person does not at least know a Gas Safe registered Gas Engineer who is prepared to have them with them to Train and Supervise the Portfolio tasks / Sign off each task as completed safely & correctly the prospective new Gas Installer would definitely find it very difficult / probably almost impossible to be accepted at most reputable Training and Assessment Centres.

Am I still correct in that at least a quite varied Portfolio [including photos of each task] with Gas work tasks trained / mentored / witnessed & signed off by a Gas Safe registered Gas Engineer / Gas Installer is a prerequisite before being accepted for Gas ACS Training & Assessment ?

Regarding your question / our comments on whether Gas Engineering is an ageing trade - apart from the statistics mentioned on this thread I have to admit that every Gas Engineer / Gas Installer that I know / have met over the last 10 years has been over 40 - the majority well over 40.

Chris
[automerge]1577991561[/automerge]



Hello Rob,

Thanks for your reply and for the compliment.

I do try to take an overview on most subjects and I have well over 50 years of experience in the Heating, Plumbing & Gas Industries - however I am not far from retirement so I will not really be involved much in the next decade / with new developments in Domestic Heating etc.

I enjoy reading your posts and often look for your Forum name on the list of threads to go to your messages.

Chris

P.S: I don`t know why my message to You Rob has been Automerged - I even tried to Edit it off my message to Member OffshoreGas and do another reply to You but that was also Automerged ?

No worries I practice Open Business anyway its essential after the growth of the internet and 'so called' universal info. Chking

 

[Brambles]

Chrisx sums the current position ( from my perspective) correctly and very succinctly. The only point I would add is that the number of people who commence a gas safe course and don’t complete within two years seems to be high. It is a statistic that is difficult to get hard evidence for. My suspicion is that training organisations (some) paint a too simplistic picture as to what is required to get the MLP signed off before being able to take the ACS.

I have seen too many people, with limited industry experience, having enormous difficulty completing their portfolio.
I’ll await the backlash in comments, but honesty up front from the training providers would prevent a lot of disappointment for people who have invested time and money without being properly briefed on the reality of the deliverables required.

Offshore Gas, your comments on the transfer of skills et al, I fully agree with your comments - but even in the current climate, the market rate for Gas Turbine technicians for the GE Frame 9 and the former Alstom GT 26 machines is five times the hourly rate for domestic gas. Also bear in mind that you only need OEM qualifications and not Gas Safe to work in that sector in England and Wales.

In my business I see no interest in these people moving into domestic or commercial gas. The sector they are targeting is existing nuclear steam turbines.

I appreciate that this (the demand for UK gas turbine technicians) is now a slowly declining market, but the OEM’s ( Siemens, GE, Solar, Ansaldo, MHI et al) are now training very few people.

 

[OffshoreGas]

Chrisx sums the current position ( from my perspective) correctly and very succinctly. The only point I would add is that the number of people who commence a gas safe course and don’t complete within two years seems to be high. It is a statistic that is difficult to get hard evidence for. My suspicion is that training organisations (some) paint a too simplistic picture as to what is required to get the MLP signed off before being able to take the ACS.

I have seen too many people, with limited industry experience, having enormous difficulty completing their portfolio.
I’ll await the backlash in comments, but honesty up front from the training providers would prevent a lot of disappointment for people who have invested time and money without being properly briefed on the reality of the deliverables required.

Offshore Gas, your comments on the transfer of skills et al, I fully agree with your comments - but even in the current climate, the market rate for Gas Turbine technicians for the GE Frame 9 and the former Alstom GT 26 machines is five times the hourly rate for domestic gas. Also bear in mind that you only need OEM qualifications and not Gas Safe to work in that sector in England and Wales.

In my business I see no interest in these people moving into domestic or commercial gas. The sector they are targeting is existing nuclear steam turbines.

I appreciate that this (the demand for UK gas turbine technicians) is now a slowly declining market, but the OEM’s ( Siemens, GE, Solar, Ansaldo, MHI et al) are now training very few people.

I completely agree on the training providers not being overly transparent, the portfolio seems to be the hardest part for most to achieve. But at the same time it’s pretty naive of a candidate to believe there will be a queue of people willing to give up their time for free to train what will soon be a competitor. I’ve happily paid nearly £4k for three of us to complete this stage. The mentor has to do quite a lot of work and having a trainee shadow you slows the job down.

I agree you’re not going to have a huge number of contract turbine techs jumping ship but there are plenty of instrument techs doing maintenance in food/clothing/chemical etc industries who earn £25-35k who may well fancy a change.