Newbie question - Leaking WCs!

[rebelyell]

Hello everyone.

This is my first post and I need some good, reliable advice on this

Have been in my 'new' house for approx 6-yrs now but water bills for neighbours houses are all lower than mine. Have now checked out water meter and when stopcock turned off, meter stops (as it should) but when stopcock opened, small 'arrow' in middle occasionally jumps a bit, rotating round in very small steps.
There is no water demand in the house, have switched off central heating system, switched our water softener into bypass mode but still the meter registers a leak somewhere.
I then checked the WCs and have noticed that in three of the four pans, there is a minute trickle of water running down the back of the pan!
To prove it, I wiped the pan dry using a cloth and checked again 15 mins later - sure enough, a slight trickle or weep of water!
These WCs have had no repairs or work done to them since the house was built, so we have never ever noticed this.
What is the best fix for this - replace the siphon/valve unit inside? Or, strip it out, clean thoroughly and relocate using sealant?
Could I claim for the poor installation from the builder - we have found lots of poor workmanship throughout the house - the house was built by the No.1 UK House builder....apparently?
Please can you offer me your best advice with this and I want to get the leaks fixed to reduce my annual bill!
Many thanks.

 

[dontknowitall]

Sounds like either the inlet valves are letting in water and not shutting off properly or the float isn't set to the correct height.

Try flushing the loo then pulling up the float. If the water stops completely then you have to alter the float so the water turns off at a lower level in the cistern.

If the water doesn't stop completely it's usually quickest and easiest to change the inlet valve for a new one.

Hope this helps.

 

[rebelyell]

Thanks Dontknowitall! I will give this a go later.

I did think about buying some dye to put in the water to help locate the leak or to confirm it was fixed..any suggestions as to what would be best for this...does it need to be a special 'safe' dye to use in the water for treatment?

 

[WHPES]

I have heard of people using food colouring but it musn't be allowed to get back into the supply.

 

[REDSAW]

my father in law had exactly the same problem last year.
5 bed 4 bath, 12 years old. he's wealthy so didnt really notice the water bill price.
any way, a dent slowly formed in his block paved driveway over a few years, 6 feet from the meter pot. so i told him to call out the water board to save him repairing the driveway, he called out severn trent and told them there was a water leak somewhere knowing they will have to dig out to investigate and replace the blocks, nice and level (crafty eh?.).
whilst s.t were looking down the hole one of them called to my f-in-l and said that his neighbour was connected to his meter.....
he had been paying around £250 per year for the last 10 years for his neighbours water and a vicar at that.
try turning the stop-cock of after the meter for a while and check the dial.

 

[rebelyell]

Thanks for your advice on this.
This morning i turned off the isolators to eack WC cistern and checked the meter. Sure enough, it was not rotating at all. Left for ten minutes, checked again. Same thing.
So, one by one, I turned on each isolator and found four of the five started the meter going round again, proving their are small weeps or leaks. In fact the first valve I looked at just would not shut off completely, having a slight drip every two or three seconds. Again, left for half an hour. came back still doing the same.
I stripped the ball valve assy down and found small debris on the rubber membrane inside, where it closes against the flow restrictor. Cleaned this up, re-assembled and bingo. Problem fixed. No more drips.
I suspect the other three will be similar fixes or if not, I will buy repelacement ball vale assys. and swap out.
I did notice a lot of grit inside the WC tanks. Where is this coming from? Could it be that the builders never flushed the water pipework through, which is why I am getting small bits of debris on the valves???

At least I now know how to cure the problems. Thanks for all your help with this.

 

[WHPES]

The grit and muck is probably from the water main. This is why you are supposed to periodically clean and sterilise the header tanks.

 

[rebelyell]

Not sure what you mean by header tank in this scenario? I thought that was for central heating?
The four cisterns we have are in a three storey town house design which uses a closed loop or unvented Hot water system but I don't see what that has to do with the toilet cold feed supply. I thought that was directly off the rising main.
Unless you are referring to the toilet cisterns as header tanks??? I have cleaned these out a number of times yet still get grit in them. Why is this?
Thanks.

 

[Monkey Wrench]

If the cisterns are the push-button type, you may well find that its the siphons that are causing the problem as they're not re-seating/sealing properly after flushing and are passing water. After a while the inlet valve will then open to replace the water lost out of the cistern by the leaking siphon.

I had a customer with a similar problem to this a few weeks ago and it was the siphon so definitely worth checking.

 

[moony]

whateverr it is blame the builders haha


is that what you wanted to hear ???

whpes was mearly using header tank cleaning as an example of mains water carrying dirt.

**** happens im afraid after 5 yrs if the only prob youve had with your w.c is the washers needed replacing i wouldnt me too miffed matey.

if someone come to me 5 yrs after id fitted a toilet asking for washers replacing and blaming me then i wouldnt be too happy.

 

[rebelyell]

I think you may be missing the point.
I am NOT complaining about the failing of any washers over time, which I fully expect to happen through natural degragation of the rubber or whatever is used, but merely asking the question that should not a newly plumbed system be flushed through by the installation team before being allowed to enter service, to remove any debris?

If water-borne contaminants are causing failures of washers and other components over time, why don't household water systems have in-line filters or traps near the stopcock that would catch any such debris? These can then be emptied or replaced as an when necessary. Simialr such filter are used in compressed air systems to stop failures so why doesn't someone design such a system for domestic use?

 

[WHPES]

You can buy inline filters for mains water systems.

 

[moony]

it no doubt was flushed mate, just debris does get into water line and it does seem to congregate in cisterns. you can buy inline filters like whpes has said - but these arent fitted- more of a personal preference. i would not look to blaming anyone for this - this is all im saying matey.