Newbie - Urgent Help Required - Delonghi Radiator

[chopper]

Hi there,

Newbie here and after some advice with the radiators installed in my new home.

We have recently moved to New Zealand and in a rural area, so have had a coal fired boiler installed. Its more than capable of producing the heat input required to heat the radiators in our house.

We have had delonghi radiators fitted along with thermostatic controls. I am unsure of the model but seem pretty standard.

My main concern is that the radiators are not working properly and only getting luke warm at best. I am sure the flow on the thermostatic valves is set correct, but think the flow and return may be plumbed into the radiator incorrectly.

The flow and return come through the floor together and into a H valve set up at the base of the radiator. From looking at the setup and feeling the pipes, one is red hot, I guess this is the flow and the other the return. It is plumbed so that the flow goes straight up to the thermostatic valve, ie out of the 2 pipes this is the one at the edge of the radiator.

One radiator is set up different where the inner of the 2 pipes is the flow and not straight up to the valve and this radiatior heats up great and works as I would expect.

I am wondering if it is possible to set up these radiators without worrying about the flow and return, as the plumber who installed them says it doesn't matter and has no explanation of why its not working!

I have looked at a couple of other set ups and they have theirs set up the way my hot radiator works. Just after some advice as to the correct way of setting these up.

Sorry for going on and any help, advice greatly appreciated.

From looking a bit more, it would appear that my radiators are fitted with flow-setter valves which are used for the balancing of the radiators, I have found this on the web, not exactly my radikator but explains what I am talking about, I am now certain that he has set the radiators up wrong.
[DLMURL]http://www.buderus.net/Portals/1/Manuals/panelradiator_manual2003.pdf[/DLMURL]

What would happen if you had the flow onto the return, luke warm radiators?

Thanks

 

[plumbnuts]

As you look from the front of the radiator the return should be on the right i.e nearest the end of the radiator. These valves/radiators will not work properly if the flow and return are reversed. You have correctly identified the hot pipe as the flow and it seems that they are piped the wrong way round, Get your plumber back to sort out the problem.
Good luck
Steve

 

[migoplumber]

im not quite clear on where the pipes enter, the radiator.
do they both enter the bottom of the radiator?
if they are 1 up 1 down different sides the ( you get a wincy bit more heat output ) but have to be piped correctly, as is the case if they are both piped into the same side (top and bottom)
if you have trvs fitted, nowdays they are bi directional, but you do have to make sure the arrows on the inside are pointing in the right direction
could be as simple as balancing the lockshields need balancing!

good luck
shaun

 

[plumbnuts]

migoplumber
This is far from a normal type of rad and valve set up. The f&r enter the rad at the bottom right of the rad and then go through a balancing valve and TRV (Non standard)
Steve

 

[chopper]

Plumbnuts,

Cheers mate, you have confirmed my thoughts on it been incorrectly plumbed up.

They are exactly as you described, the only one that puts any heat out has the set up as you described, the rest have the flow on the right hand side, which should be the return.

I had searched the net high and low and nobody seems to post about this kind of radiator, took me ages to even find something with any kind of instructions.

I will have a word with the plumber and hopefully he will replumb them in correctly.

Once again thanks to you both for replying to my post and Steve for you advice.

Cheers

 

[chopper]

As expected, the plumber is adamant that these can be fitted either way and can be reversed, it has nothing to do with how he has fitted them as he has done loads over the years without any problems.

Will wait and see what happens and look elsewhere for a plumber.

 

[plumbnuts]

Why dont you ask him to change one to prove his point. He will then have no option to admit defeat and change the rest.
Steve

 

[chopper]

Yeah, will do that, he has gone away to speak with his supplier, but when he gets back in touch will suggest that to him. He seems a decent fella and like you say if he changes one, then the points proven.

Cheers

 

[migoplumber]

hi steve, as usual usng my fingers before ive obtained all the information available. now ive actually read the web page that was posted.

looks like the old spanish style one pipe system, with the valve incorperating the by pass, so if the trv shuts down theres still flow to the next rad.
steve you obviously know more than me on this one, but could it be possible that the adjustable by pass (on page 7 of the manual) isnt set up right. ie unbalanced??

thanks for putting me right
shaun

 

[plumbnuts]

Shaun
Yes it could have been but Chopper has already said which pipe is getting hot on the ones that don't work and this indicates that they have been piped up the wrong way round. His plumber says that he has fitted loads of these and that it doesn't matter which way round the F&R go. If that was the case, you would hope that the plumber woulld have tried balancing and then realised that he has made a mistake.
Some towel rails/high column rads need the F&R the correct way round, always worth a check when fitting.
Regards
Steve

 

[migoplumber]

thanks steve, something else to right down in the ever increasing size of book of things to watch out for!!

shaun

 

[chopper]

Well had the plumber back and he has refitted the radiators the correct way around, they are working better as now getting heat to them.

I guess I will have to try and balance the system now as the radiators are hot on the top and then cold on the bottom, could this be a problem with the circulating pump, needs to be set to faster setting.

Do I balance the system the same as a standard radiator which is explained on other threads, but only using the flow restrictor to set the rate.

Cheers

 

[plumbnuts]

Hi Chopper
Glad you got it sorted at last. The plumber should have balanced the system and yes you need to reduce the flow using the lockshield valve the same as a standard rad. Try this first and it will probably cure your problem.
Steve

 

[chopper]

Cheers Steve,

I am over the moon to wake up to a warm house this morning and the system seems to be working as I expected, nice warm radiators, keeps the missus happy as well.

Did as you suggested and just asked him to change one, it was then working and he had no option to change them all, to be fair, he did that no problem and think he felt a bit embarrassed that he had got it wrong and messed me about for so long in changing them.

Well hopefully thats the end of the problems for me and thanks to all who offered advice.

Chopper