no means of isolation on a gas fire

[abelag]

hi floks what would you class a gas fire without an isolation valve, i can find anything in the unsafe situations book.

cheers

 

[tipintim]

AR and NCS I would have thought.

 

[GrahamM]

NCS. Where practical every gas appliance should have means of direct isolation.

 

[kirkgas]

AR and NCS I would have thought.

explain how one situation can be AR + NCS
a fire should have an iso valve unless impractical to do so, so there are installs that have no valve that comply, so it follows that another fire without an iso which could have one fitted is NCS

 

[tipintim]

explain how one situation can be AR + NCS
a fire should have an iso valve unless impractical to do so, so there are installs that have no valve that comply, so it follows that another fire without an iso which could have one fitted is NCS

IMHO I would have thought an appliance with no means of isolation would be at risk, and that I thought its not to current standards. Are you happy with my explanation Kirkgas?

 

[diamondgas]

I wouldn,t personally slap a label on a gas fire and turn it off warning the customer not to use it just because it was missing an isolation valve tipintim, imagine there face when it's been okay the past 20-30 years ... I know of many I have now on contract and have seen in my time... It's at the most NCS my friend

 

[SimonJohns]

I would of thought that the fire would of had a restrictor elbow? Can't that be used as a point of isolation?

 

[GrahamM]

Not all fire installs have one fitted Simon. Many don't. Just connected directly to supply.

 

[ambrosia]

on a similar subject, what would you classify an oven or hob which has lost the knobs which control it, so you can now no longer turn the gas on or off on half the burners

 

[tamz]

I would class it as fkd and sell them a new one. NCS if you like.
If it had 4 sets of mole grips on it would be fine. Designer control knobs :lol:

 

[twistednuts]

on a similar subject, what would you classify an oven or hob which has lost the knobs which control it, so you can now no longer turn the gas on or off on half the burners

Id class it as mine!!
Mrs broke the knob (fnar fnar) a few weeks ago on the oven, so now we have to swap between the oven and grill. I really should get a new one, but i like watching her struggle

 

[kirkgas]

IMHO I would have thought an appliance with no means of isolation would be at risk, and that I thought its not to current standards. Are you happy with my explanation Kirkgas?

eh no sorry, but it might be just me haha
im not ripping the pee, im asking a serious question, IF its AR its AR, how can it be AR with no means of isolation and that is NCS??

 

[kirkgas]

Id class it as mine!!
Mrs broke the knob (fnar fnar) a few weeks ago on the oven, so now we have to swap between the oven and grill. I really should get a new one, but i like watching her struggle

and we just KNOW that it will still be like this next year

 

[kirkgas]

IMHO I would have thought an appliance with no means of isolation would be at risk, and that I thought its not to current standards. Are you happy with my explanation Kirkgas?

an appliance with no iso/service valve will always only be NCS, if there was an emergency at the appliance, say a gas leak or a major problem like the flame blowing back etc you wouldnt go near the fire to turn it off you would go to the ECV and shut the gas there, then deal with the problem safely

 

[julesverne]

as kirkgas states above it would be ncs because you have the ecv to turn off all appliances.

 

[tipintim]

as kirkgas states above it would be ncs because you have the ecv to turn off all appliances.

You sleeping with Kirk?

 

[tipintim]

eh no sorry, but it might be just me haha
im not ripping the pee, im asking a serious question, IF its AR its AR, how can it be AR with no means of isolation and that is NCS??

If I deem somthing that is AR, it ortamatically becomes NTC. This is standard you fault finder

 

[kirkgas]

If I deem somthing that is AR, it ortamatically becomes NTC. This is standard you fault finder

:seeya:

 

[armourer]

I would say make your mind up you cannot have two things.

It is either ID , AR , or NTC?

Classify it,
the engineer on the ground is the only one that can say this.
Thats what you are paid for.

If in doubt always go for the higher, cover your arse.

 

[kirkgas]

I would say make your mind up you cannot have two things.

It is either ID , AR , or NTC?

Classify it,
the engineer on the ground is the only one that can say this.
Thats what you are paid for.

If in doubt always go for the higher, cover your arse.

CYA is the way to go , however i dont agree with "if in doubt always go for the higher" i'm paying you to do a professional job in my house, i'm not paying you to guess what the classification is, you are an EXPERT, thats why i use you and not one of the 100's of others who are touting for your work, so i expect you to KNOW, if you AR my fire when it is only NCS and i dont use it till a repair is done you have cost me hassle of not having the use of my appliance and have cost me money doing work that isn't required to allow me to use the appliance (ok it is NCS but i can live with that) so we as experts need to be clear what the rules are, there is also the issue of you making something AR and one of your competitors gets the job of doing the repair, they could do the repair and take the cash, or they could use it as an opportunity to slag you off as not knowing what you are doing, then the customer is back on the phone to moan, and wont phone you again for another repair as you are a rip off merchant

 

[GrahamM]

I would say make your mind up you cannot have two things.

It is either ID , AR , or NTC?

Classify it,
the engineer on the ground is the only one that can say this.
Thats what you are paid for.

If in doubt always go for the higher, cover your arse.

Agree with kirkgas here. If in doubt you seek advice from someone who should know. You cannot just upgrade your classification just to cover your arse because you don't know.
If you are in doubt, call one or two engineers and dig out the books, then you can give your expert judgement based on this information.
As kirk mentioned, this is the minimum the customer expects and should get for their money.

 

[Bernie2]

When I worked on gas servicing for a company doing Housing Association work. You were required to get it right or the HA Technical officers and tenants went balmy to say the least very much as Kirkgas says you are expected to get it right. And yes there were probably many other companies looking for the same work, get it wrong and out you go. It was more like being a solicitor than a gas service engineer.