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netdef

well i am at the end of my tether with this. Have been doing the whole house up for th past year. first time giving everything a go myself. I have just fitted a new shower and my system or the shower does not seem to have enough pressure to even get it out of the shower head. I am not sure if it is the thermostat part giving me issues or (see picture) I had to put two angles on the pipes behind to get it over to where the shower fitted from the old shower. I have done nothing else, I replace a single outlet pipe thermostat shower with a twin outlet pipe thermostat shower. The cold water pipe comes straight from the tank if the loft above so is just gravity fed. and the hot water comes from the pressurised hot water cylinder which is directly behind the shower wall. I have just finished tiling and plubming it in (I am neither) I aint got a clue what is wrong. surely those two bends would not reduce my pressure that much it wont even come out the shower head. I have tried it with just the thermostat bar and water is coming out just piddling out. could the thermostat be faulty or is it my pipework ? please dont tell me i have to take my tiles back off! :mad:
IMG_20110214_114125.jpg
 
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Ok is your shower made so you can have mixed pressure? also is there a filter on the shower? try taking off the shower with water switched off then turn on water cold first then hot to see if your getting flow?
 
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there is flow as it comes with a small flexible shower head with joins just at the bottom(not shown) I can get water out of that as it is almost still from gravity. It just does not have pressure to get up a 2ft pipe! If I turn thermostat all way round to cold it dribbles out and same if it turn around to hot it dribbles out.
 
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I went to one of these the other day, he had put a pump in and it still wasn't working,
Now a few questions.
1. Did you put an essex, surrey or S Flange into the cylinder so that you got direct water from the hot water cylinder
2. Did you make sure the pipes were flushed out before installing the shower
3. Is the shower thermostatic type

If you answered yes to all the above questions, put simply it is the shower which is too great a resistance for the water, it is not only the pipe leading up to the shower head but also the thermostatic valve and the shower- head.

These showers look excellent but they really need to be installed by somebody who has a lot of experience in showers. I would reccomend ringing up a plumber and making sure they have a lot of experience in these showers, I went to this blokes house and he had been charged £300 by the same plumber who had installed it and they still couldnt find out why it wasn't working.
Either that or install a negative head pump if you have the money to pay for one?
 
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jase158 said:
I went to one of these the other day, he had put a pump in and it still wasn't working,
Now a few questions.
1. Did you put an essex, surrey or S Flange into the cylinder so that you got direct water from the hot water cylinder
2. Did you make sure the pipes were flushed out before installing the shower
3. Is the shower thermostatic type

If you answered yes to all the above questions, put simply it is the shower which is too great a resistance for the water, it is not only the pipe leading up to the shower head but also the thermostatic valve and the shower- head.

These showers look excellent but they really need to be installed by somebody who has a lot of experience in showers. I would reccomend ringing up a plumber and making sure they have a lot of experience in these showers, I went to this blokes house and he had been charged £300 by the same plumber who had installed it and they still couldnt find out why it wasn't working.
Either that or install a negative head pump if you have the money to pay for one?
Click to expand...

1. I assume this is already in as brand new house I have not touched pipes other than extend about 6 inches with two bends.
2. I had turned water off and drained pipe, hot water has been on since I just put cap over pipe while still working so had water around house.
3. Yes it is thermostatic, I have just replaced a different thermostatic one. (see picture of old shower)

IMAG0001.jpg
this is my old shower, hot and cold water into the big round thermostat/water on water off. which then feeds the single pipe out wall up to shower head.

IMG_20110214_114125.jpg
this is my new shower, hot and cold feed into back of thermostat bar. which then feeds the shower head above. nothing has changed in the pipework apart from the two bends you can see which I have drawn in.
 
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turned off hot water and cold water, took all apart and could not see any blockage, blew through the thermostat housing nothing came out.

so what are my options here? am I buggered to this type of shower I am just coming to the end of all the work i started and really can not be ar*&*& to start taking tiles of and changing plumbing.

Salamander Pumps

would the above sort it out.
 
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Ok I dont think your hot tank is pressurised, I think the hot a cold both work off gravity?
Right so what is the difference in height between your tank and the shower?
you probably have an air lock just but it back together and just let it run out of the lowest point does that make sense
 
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Did you turn on the water with the shower valve off, you need to make sure the water doesn't go spurting out across the room, close the shower door or have somebody with a bucket stopping the water from going all over the bathroom. This will clean the pipes out. If not then the pump you listed is a positive head pump and may work, but a negative head pump will definetly work .
 
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franky said:
Ok I dont think your hot tank is pressurised, I think the hot a cold both work off gravity?
Right so what is the difference in height between your tank and the shower?
you probably have an air lock just but it back together and just let it run out of the lowest point does that make sense
Click to expand...


The hot water tank is pretty much directly behind the wall of the shower on the same level, the cold water tank is above in the loft a few feet above the shower. All other hot is fine. the tank has a little pressure release valve on it i have to open now and then when a bit of air gets stuck in it. You usually know because the pump gets louder as air gets in.
the cold water is straight from the bottom other the tank, so I guess its the weight of the water and gravity doing its job.


reading some other forums people are saying these thermostatic bar systems are usually not usable in a gravity fed system. I am beginning to think that myself now, by time it gets through the thermostat and little pipes and the selector to change from shower head to flexi shower head it has nothing left.

it not even low pressure, it totally unusable!
 
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Salamander Automatic Negative Head Unit RMC3 - Salamander Pumps available at Plumbworld

so would this one suffice, I am not after a power shower as I have made it and open shower with one panel and water will get everywhere I would just like water to come out, I am sure 1bar would be enough.

I will not attempt this myself but how easy or hard is it to add one of these pumps, can be attached to the pipe coming from the water tank? if so then you have to just find which is the hot feed for the shower, cut both of them, attach to pump then reattach back the the pipes?
 
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Follow the manufacturers instructions precisely. The pump must be situated level with the bottom of the cylinder.

Level of difficulty depends on how easy it is to get at the hot and cold pipes feeding the shower.

Is the shower you have bought suitable for low pressure systems? Many available from B&Q etc nowadays are only suitable for modern high pressure plumbing systems.
 
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Firstly the water supply should be roughly of equal pressure to work properly, secondly if they are both gravity the higher the shower head the less pressure, if there are check valves on the pipework and the header tank is directly above the shower head there is probably not enough head to open them. If you have pressurised hot water and a gravity cold you would need a check valve on the pipes to stop the back feed into the cold.
 
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netdef said:
my shower is this one


THERMOSTATIC ROUND CHROME SHOWER MIXER TAP VALVE SS021 on eBay (end time 14-Feb-11 13:17:23 GMT)


This is what is says it's compatible with.
These taps & showers will work on the following systems
·Combination boiler systems
·Pumped hot water systems
·Un-vented hot water systems
·Standard pressurised hot water cylinder type systems
Click to expand...

According to those instructions this shower isn't suitable for a low pressure water supply. A low pressure mixer may work but it might not be that powerful.

This may explain it.

Shower pump selection guide
 
Last edited by a moderator:
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It definitely wont work as it is as you don't have the head of water. The tank would need to be 5 meters above the shower head.
It told you here
untitled1.JPG

If you want to keep it you will need to pump it.
 
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tamz said:
It definitely wont work as it is as you don't have the head of water. The tank would need to be 5 meters above the shower head.
It told you here
View attachment 2104

If you want to keep it you will need to pump it.
Click to expand...

didn't know nothing about bar pressure, it seemed very low so thought it would work, only now reading others posts that people saying 0.1bar per 1m

looks like a pump it is then.
 
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thought i would come back here and reply, fitted a salamander pump with lots of altering pipe work once i figured out. my issue now is that it is noisy and if I leave it on then the pump seems to come on every 3 hours (would this be a leak of some sort)

not to mention all my tiles are coming up from the floor ... time for and expert !
 
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netdef said:
thought i would come back here and reply, fitted a salamander pump with lots of altering pipe work once i figured out. my issue now is that it is noisy and if I leave it on then the pump seems to come on every 3 hours (would this be a leak of some sort)

not to mention all my tiles are coming up from the floor ... time for and expert !
Click to expand...
think you have answered your own question my friend,hope you get it sorted
 
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