Non gas safe engineers

[Millsy 82]

I went out to a boiler which wasnt working on thursday found the fault and got the price for the 2 parts required (2 seperate faults) my company passed this onto the landlord who said this is too expensive i'll get somebody else to look at it.

The tennant who just so happens to be the son of 1 of our contracts manager phoned up and said that the landlord has arranged for 1 of his friends who used to be an engineer to come round and have a look.

He came round struggled to get the casing off (not hard on a gledhill gulf stream) looked at it (it works for about 40 mins then pump stops) said its working fine nothing needed tennant said about it running for a bit then stopping to which the engineer said well what did the other guy say, Tennant said the parts and said ok i'll get them sorted.

When the tennant asked are you gas safe he said yes. Can I see your card he said Oh I havnt got it with me. Can I have your gas safe number he said I cant remember it. After a couple of phone calls between the tennant and the other engineer he still cant get the number off him so has decided he will refuse to let him in on next visit until he sees the card.

The tennant does not even know this persons full name.

What would you do?

 

[GQuigley67]

tell the guy to F off and kick up fuss with landlord if i was tennant imho

 

[GQuigley67]

shouldnt have told the guy what parts where required imho should have left him to it to see if he knew what was wrong, the fact he didnt know himself confirms that he shouldnt be working on it

 

[GQuigley67]

i know my GS number off by heart aswell considering how much paperwork i fill in !

 

[CES]

Agree totally with Gerry. If the guy was Gas Safe he would know his reg number, its only the card number that changes every year. Id let the Landlord know that you know the guy he sent wasn't legal. I'm surprised your Contracts manager isn't round there right now. I know I would be if it was my son's life this slime of a Landlord is putting money before.

 

[jtsplumbing]

Tell him to check out his CP12 as well, this could be hooky as well !!

 

[Millsy 82]

It was the tennant who said about the parts to this guy I wouldnt of said a thing he even asked for the part numbers. We have informed the landlord that we believe he isnt registered but that didnt go down well. As for paperwork I doubt any will be filled in at all.

 

[GQuigley67]

tell tenant to report the landlord to gas safe simples

 

[aggis]

Millsy 82, hope you've billed the landlord for diagnosing the fault..Gas Safe Engineers spent time & money training, so it's not always the time you spend on the job, it's what you know that the landlord should pay for it. He decided to get someone else to fit the parts..... BILL THEM !!!

 

[Millsy 82]

Yeah my company will bill him just annoys me when somebody who is not gas safe is taking work off our company because they do it cheaper because they dont have to pay for courses gas safe etc. (Not that I do thats my companies pleasure)

Never thought about reporting the landlord.

 

[GQuigley67]

the landlord will get shafted if he is found to be using illegal engineer

 

[Toned.f]

the landlord will get shafted if he is found to be using illegal engineer

I like that outcome.

 

[wazzer]

the landlord will get shafted if he is found to be using illegal engineer

But unfortunately this hardly ever happens.................................................................................... ask him where he lives with post code and go on find an installer

 

[adam84]

Firstly confirm said engineers GS number if it even exists if not which i suspect is the case report the engineer to gas safe for carrying out illegal gas work (taking the cover of a combustion chamber is classed as gas work) and report the landlord to health and safety and trading standards for endangering public safety, case closed. Oh and change landlord for good measure.

 

[jtsplumbing]

Its OK reporting so call`d engineer to GS but what will they do ? send him a letter asking him to join , Thats if you can provide all the information, address ect, Ive done it ! 2 years ago, and the chap is still at it, so you think whats the point !!
:confused5:

 

[wazzer]

we are on the losing team

 

[Barry98]

takes a death to be interested imho

 

[Roger Welton]

takes a death to be interested imho

Sadly all too true

 

[Deleted member 25704]

I would of let the guy get on and do it.

There are always things we don't know, and appliances that are new - I haven't worked on a gas fired gledhill in my 30 years. I also struggle to get casings off and on again. The pace of boiler replacements is now probably every 5-8 years, so its not like it was in the past, where you would come across one of about five mainstream appliances - baxi bermuda, pott kingfisher, ideal mexico, or the odd exotic like a sine 18, Vaillant combi.

Its tough to know all about boilers unless you are doing a lot of boiler fixing. Plumbers will usually work it out, they have an ocean of meaningful cock-ups, mistakes, floods, repairs, problems, solutions, and more problems, swishing in the back of their minds to draw on.

I would question the 'competence' of many Gas Safe Registrants, in their ability to meet minimum technical competency requirements stated by summitskills/ciphe as NVQ3:

[DLMURL="http://www.ciphe.org.uk/Professional/MTC-Documents/"]MTC Documents - CIPHE[/DLMURL]

I don't know what faith the public put in Gas Safe Registered installers, but it does not seem that difficult to become one.

 

[adam84]

The so called minimum technical competency stated by summit skills/ciphe isnt a requirement for gassafe engineers to work on gas, the ACS scheme has been doing that very well for last 20+ years and any engineer who sits the relevant tests and assessments will confirm that they require a genuine knowlege of the gas industry in order to pass them. In my experiance most schemes promoted by the ciphe usualy costs installers money to access and is usually only promoted in the ciphe,s own interest.

 

[Deleted member 25704]

The so called minimum technical competency stated by summit skills/ciphe isnt a requirement for gassafe engineers to work on gas, the ACS scheme has been doing that very well for last 20+ years and any engineer who sits the relevant tests and assessments will confirm that they require a genuine knowlege of the gas industry in order to pass them. In my experiance most schemes promoted by the ciphe usualy costs installers money to access and is usually only promoted in the ciphe,s own interest.

I can understand your scepticism, about ciphe and summitskills and I share it.

My point was to establish that Gas Safe Engineers, often do not serve an apprenticeship, they enter industry via ACS, which you find to facilitate 'genuine knowledge'.

Could you point out what type of genuine knowledge is tested in an ACS and how genuine knowledge in the ACS differs from the 'knowledge' learned by apprentices serving 4 year apprenticeships?

Over the last 20 years ACS and gas installation has been acceptable. However, now there are 50 installers within a mile of my house, it is less attractive to me as a small business than it was 20 years ago.

In a few weeks time, we will learn of the new Gas Safe figures for entry to industry - last year it was an additional 6,000 or more (in the deepest depression this country has ever seen). I would expect the figure to be unannounced - we will not learn of it this year, because another rise of 6,000 or more might just get people thinking about GSR interests.

 

[adam84]

The CCN1 safety core deals with flueing, ventilation, pipework, gas safety and combustion standards for gas engineers, i agree that all ACS training should be coupled with either a plumbing/gas based NVQ level 3 qualification to intergrate both ACS and practical long term experiance, what i dont agree with is bodies like CIPHE and alike being involved with training fraimwork, that job lies with the institute for gas engineers and managers.

 

[Deleted member 25704]

The CCN1 safety core deals with flueing, ventilation, pipework, gas safety and combustion standards for gas engineers, i agree that all ACS training should be coupled with either a plumbing/gas based NVQ level 3 qualification to intergrate both ACS and practical long term experiance, what i dont agree with is bodies like CIPHE and alike being involved with training fraimwork, that job lies with the institute for gas engineers and managers.

The job of producing qualification frameworks actually lies with EUskills and utilities, which are the sector skills council for the gas industry. Their job is to develop a demand-led system of training - for example, they develop a demand through promoting the manufacture of boilers that need specialist equipment and tools, then they make a course for it, and a list of merchants where you can buy the tools to test it (CPA1 scenario).

So the job of those at the top is not to develop skills, but to provide markets for skills and job creation.

In addition, what do managers know about plumbing or gas for that matter? And how much research has the Institute for Gas Engineers (IGEM?) conducted into the industry that is of benefit to you? Other than to produce standards that are not accessible to us!

You pay out, they take the money! But, its getting tougher to meet the overheads - hence my concern.

 

[REDSAW]

I would of let the guy get on and do it.

There are always things we don't know, and appliances that are new - I haven't worked on a gas fired gledhill in my 30 years. I also struggle to get casings off and on again. The pace of boiler replacements is now probably every 5-8 years, so its not like it was in the past, where you would come across one of about five mainstream appliances - baxi bermuda, pott kingfisher, ideal mexico, or the odd exotic like a sine 18, Vaillant combi.

Its tough to know all about boilers unless you are doing a lot of boiler fixing. Plumbers will usually work it out, they have an ocean of meaningful cock-ups, mistakes, floods, repairs, problems, solutions, and more problems, swishing in the back of their minds to draw on.

I would question the 'competence' of many Gas Safe Registrants, in their ability to meet minimum technical competency requirements stated by summitskills/ciphe as NVQ3:

[DLMURL="http://www.ciphe.org.uk/Professional/MTC-Documents/"]MTC Documents - CIPHE[/DLMURL]

I don't know what faith the public put in Gas Safe Registered installers, but it does not seem that difficult to become one.

hark at him.lol.

 

[CES]

I would question the 'competence' of many Gas Safe Registrants, in their ability to meet minimum technical competency requirements stated by summitskills/ciphe as NVQ3:

[DLMURL="http://www.ciphe.org.uk/Professional/MTC-Documents/"]MTC Documents - CIPHE[/DLMURL]

I don't know what faith the public put in Gas Safe Registered installers, but it does not seem that difficult to become one.

This is a very bold statement when you consider the amount of Gas Safe Registered engineers who are on these forums. :innocent: