Non paying customer??!!!

[plumbingmad]

Hi,
Im interested to hear a few other peoples opinions on a situation that ive found myself in.

I recently quoted for a bathroom refurbishment and emailed the customer the quote with details of the work, timescale and price. The customer rang and after a little negotiation we agreed a lower price.

One week into the job and it has become clear that there is additional work that is required in order to complete. Mainly the lighting circuit has no earth and requires a repeat visit from my electrician and the extractor fan that they have since requested be replaced(not mentioned on quote) requires a vent as the previous one just emptied into the loft space.

The customer is insisting that these additional works are my financial responsibility despite no mention of them in the original quote. They have made it quite clear that they will not make full payment for the bathroom until these additionals are completed.

Therefore ive called the lads off the job and told the customer I intend to recover payment for the the weeks work carried out so far. (£750)

The customer has suggested that they will make a counter claim against me on the basis that ive left them with a non-flushing toilet/no shower etc basically the inconvenience of having a half finished bathroom.

I intend to start legal proceedings to recover this money but am concerned if his counter claim has any legal grounds...

any advice/ experience gratefully recieved....

 

[johnmcginty]

If it is not in the quote then he has no legal claim against you , though If I were you I would go round and put the loo back in and then make the claim. Did he sign the quote??

 

[plumbingmad]

The toilet is there and waste connected, just has no flush as it is to be a concealed cistern that requires a lot of work still to be installed. The customers were left with instructions for manual flushing and had been happy with the arrangement.

The quote was done via the internet and no paper copy signed.

There are undoubtedly big lessons for me to learn from this with regards issuing detailed quotes that are signed. But from this point in I just need some advice as to how to proceed

 

[johnmcginty]

Mate go to UK Legal Questions & Online UK Law Advice. Ask Solicitors and Lawyers for Advice with Employment, Real Estate, Immigration, Divorce, Child Support, Private Client & More! - Just Answer! ...Same thing happened to me recently and it's just not good for business.

 

[uug197h]

we do a terms and conditions and we have them signed before we start most of the time its when the job is booked

 

[mcmoby69]

be careful , new regs came in recently about a 7 day cooling off period. look on the argi website
Association of Registered Gas Installers ARGI • Index page

i havent finished reading all the posts on it yet but it looks like a real can of worms!!!

 

[plumbingmad]

Naturally im sat here nervously wondering if ican lose my business over something like this....

can anyone offer a worst case scenario? Does anyone know of someone that has been sued for something similar.

I feel that there is unlikely to be a scenario where the customer now has us finish the job, so im more concerned that the customer can claim some form of compensation????

many thanks for all your invaluable replies...

 

[Kings]

I think there is a law saying you have to be paid for any work done but not sure.

I hope it goes well for you, it might be worth trying to re-negotiate by putting in a new reasonable quote including the additional work that's required to meet the regs. This way at least you can say that you have been as fair as possible and done everything to try and finish the bathroom, also offering to continue the work.

They will argue that you are trying to raise the costs mid job though but I'm sure by now that they might just want it finished.

One route which will hurt is to offer to finish for the original quote - take the hit and walk away, but that's your call.

Good luck!

 

[NickH]

I know it really grates but you might be best to take a hit on it and finish the job as priced, trouble is some people are natural born ar**holes and they could cause all sorts of problems for you. Having said that you might finish it all and still not get paid. Difficult choice mate.

 

[plumbingmad]

Thats my question though....what is "all sorts of problems?"

Thanks for your comments, though I doubt he will have me back....several other tradesmen were there at the same time and all independently told me they would never go back because the customer was seemingly so awkward.

 

[Kings]

All sorts of problems will probably turn out to be them not liking the finishes or moaning that you walked dirt all through the house, saying that the water pressure ain't as good as it used to be, they could go on and on.
You could end up haggling for the price.

Even if you are not going back then I would still consider writing a nice letter and submitting a new quote so you can't be seen as the one not wanting to finish the job and leaving them loo-less. Keep copies!!
State that these are required by the regs.
If you do end up in court then at least something like this may swing it into your favour.

 

[plumbingmad]

thanks kings,

what do mean when you suggest stating that "these are required by the regs" do you mean the new quote submittal?

thanks again

 

[uug197h]

offer to do the work for the original quote but ask for full or part payment up front, you could even put it in Writing keep a copy for you and post a copy recorded delivery that way if it go's to court you have the information and the proof it was delivered this way you are trying to sort it out and if the customer rejects it it becomes the customer that has stopped the work from proceeding

 

[Kings]

thanks kings,

what do mean when you suggest stating that "these are required by the regs" do you mean the new quote submittal?

thanks again

I'm assuming you are fitting earths because the existing circuits didn't have an earth - to comply with Elec regs I think i am right in saying that an earth should be fitted if you have altered or installed new fittings. I can check as I have only just qualed in Part P my head is still spinning.
The fan shouldn't just terminate in the roof space as before, as they should be fitted to the eaves or roof vent tile via trunking.
Maybe you could leverage the additional costs because of building regs requirments, although they could argue that you didn't tell them this at the beginning.
The last post by uug197h sounds favourite, that way the ball is in their court and you can't be accused of not offering to finish the job.

Best of luck!

 

[Phil]

MMM.........a tough one, part of me thinks as Uug says and take a hit but then on the other hand I know how it makes your blood boil when a customer is too thick or ill informed to know any better.

Me? I would probably not have let it get to the walking out stage and just done the extra work and learnt a big lesson.

I don't work for anyone who I don't like or get on with when it comes to big jobs, or in some cases small ones, this way you can filter out the riff-raff who arent worthy of your skills.

 

[justlead1]

Hi. Get them checked out regard credit worthiness. If bad tell them you know they have tried it with other people. There are professional knockers about, they undermine you and cause undue stress, seemingly to put you on tilt and act according to their rules. If you feel in the right? hold your ground. Good Luck

 

[Leon]

I'm still in training myself so can't offer direct advice, however...

Have you heard of the site "roguecustomer.com"?
Basically a site(/campaign to get decent legislation to prevent this kind of thing) started by a builder after a problem with a non paying customer (which ended with his being granted permission to bulldoze the extension he had built!, not sure how he managed the permission bit^^).
The site allows you to list these bad customers (and presumably to check out if prospective customers are already on there).
The site is quite knew so probably not that widely known, but hopefully it will catch on. It may in some cases serve as a good threat (in that once on there it will be hard for them to get any work done ever again, assuming it does catch on) to keep customers from backing out of paying what was agreed on. Although unfortunatly by the sound of it your client sounds the type not to care, you could still flag them up to warn of other trades in future.
Anyway good luck with it, I'm sure it won't come to anything awfull like them being able to successfully sue, as the lack of signed contract surely works both ways and by the sound of it the other trades you worked with would back you up.

 

[Avatar]

Alreet guys this typr of prob is a bugger isnt it. The good news is that email does count the same as a paper copy, and a verbal agreement is as binding (although less provable) as a written one.

having said that, an 'a-hole is an a-hole' - I wouldnt do any more work for anyone but particully this guy if you are considering finishing withpout probper paperwork.

Include clauses like: 'extra work not included in the quote will incur extra cost to be agreed with the customer' and get the bastid to sign it. Then if they play sillty buggers with you, you have their nuts in a sling!

Put other clauses like: 'all materials incur extra cost', 'we are not resposnsible for any work done by third parties', 'payment is to be settled with 30 days of the invioce'.

People are pizz takers and some will really push it - I will refuse to do any work if my contract has not been signed.

Plus all materials in advance, and 50% of the labour charges.

if you beg I may just give you a copy of my contract to use/abuse/adapt . . .

 

[Phil]

Alreet guys this typr of prob is a bugger isnt it. The good news is that email does count the same as a paper copy, and a verbal agreement is as binding (although less provable) as a written one.

having said that, an 'a-hole is an a-hole' - I wouldnt do any more work for anyone but particully this guy if you are considering finishing withpout probper paperwork.

Include clauses like: 'extra work not included in the quote will incur extra cost to be agreed with the customer' and get the bastid to sign it. Then if they play sillty buggers with you, you have their nuts in a sling!

Put other clauses like: 'all materials incur extra cost', 'we are not resposnsible for any work done by third parties', 'payment is to be settled with 30 days of the invioce'.

People are pizz takers and some will really push it - I will refuse to do any work if my contract has not been signed.

Plus all materials in advance, and 50% of the labour charges.

if you beg I may just give you a copy of my contract to use/abuse/adapt . . .

You need to live in the real world, unless its a recommendation, most people I've met wouldn't give you 50% of your labour charges up front, I wouldn't.

 

[Avatar]

Tough **** - what wiv most people thinking you are a 'rouge trader' anyway.
You pay money upfront and sign contracts for almost anything these days, what with internet shopping ect. If B & Q did the job, they would get payed at least some in advance.

WHo isnt living in the real world now hos ?

I might take 50% of the money, and then naff off after doing half a job?

What have they to lose??!!!!!

Hahaha you are funny mate!

Donut.