oil lifter

[robertf]

Hi all

Just a quick question.

I have a aga which is supplied with oil from a lifter pump as the main tank is too low, I also have an oil fired Walstar situated on a wall approx 3metres of the ground.

I have started to get air into the boiler system which every few days cuts out because of an airlock, I have spent £700 trying to get someone to sort out but no luck.

Iam now starting to lose patience and decided to do it myself, now, my question is this can I supply the aga AND the boiler from the same lifter pump, the aga is gravity fed and the boiler has a suction pump in the boiler casing, iam concerned that the boiler may suck the oil form the aga pipe and create problems with the aga.


Any thoughts on this would be appreciated.

regards bob

 

[Best]

When you say you get air into boiler system, do you mean air in oil line to Walstar boiler?
If so, then the oil pipe supplying the Walstar needs checked for leaks from source to boiler, including oil hoses. Oil line may need pressure tested.
Oil pipes should not be joined together for Aga & Walstar. They need connected at source.

 

[robertf]

Hi there thanks for that

According to the engineer he has done all the above and it should not be pulling in any air.

As a thought could I take two supplies from the oil lifter haeder tank one to the aga and one to the boiler. Iam at my wits end with the problem as nobody seems to have any ideas.

rgards bob

 

[Best]

I would think separate oil pipes would be correct.
Just a thought, wonder if oil pipe to Aga is sound? Also is oil pump at Walstar letting air in? I had a problem with air in a oil line where a tank was too low & it turned out to be the oil filter at the oil boiler letting in air at the O ring seal.
The slightest bit of air ingress will cause problems, like a brass to copper joint not sealed properly.

 

[Roger Welton]

Also worth looking at the non return on the wallstar these seem to fail quite regularly.

 

[robertf]

Thank you for that guys

Will check out filter o ring and see what happens.

I do not think it is the pump as the air seems to be coming from outside of the boiler, but I think worth a second look as previous engineers claimed to have checked the pump.

regards bob

 

[SimonG]

Fit a tiger loop, question though is why has it started to do this now. You could have given me £700 to fix it, but you would have got plenty of change.

 

[tackleberry]

i fitted my worcester danesmoor boiler 5.8m up from lp 1200 oil tank was thinking i would need an oil lifter but fitted tiger loop ran 10mm copper underground then on the vertical reduced to 8mm so oil burner pump wouldnt have to work as hard.Anyway my advice to you would be check all joints and seals around burner on aga and boiler also as said above check NRV on boiler.then belts and braces run new line tee off to aga fit tiger loop to boiler.

 

[kimbo]

Why do you think it is air causing the problem. Wallstars will have an air bubble in the clear oil line to the pump, this is normal and normally does not affect the running of the boiler.

 

[robertf]

Fit a tiger loop, question though is why has it started to do this now. You could have given me £700 to fix it, but you would have got plenty of change.

The guy fitted a Tiger loop but could not get oil from the loop to the boiler ( he was using a hoover as in vacuum cleaner to suck the oil through the pipework!! )

I agree I cannot understand as it had been working for ten years before that with no problem and only started when I fired the boiler up to test everything was ok after the summer.

 

[Best]

The guy fitted a Tiger loop but could not get oil from the loop to the boiler ( he was using a hoover as in vacuum cleaner to suck the oil through the pipework!! )

I agree I cannot understand as it had been working for ten years before that with no problem and only started when I fired the boiler up to test everything was ok after the summer.

Shouldn't have been a problem getting oil to the tigerloop - all he had to do was draw a tin of Kerosine into the pump & tigerloop via the inlet oil hose first.
Your oil pipe could have got a knock at the oil tank outside, during the summer & caused a leak.

 

[SimonG]

So problems only occured after long downtime over summer. First thing is check all joints, dismantle and redo, then if this is no good I'd be looking at the pump, especially if you are saying the tiger loop didn't do it. But then it could be the new tiger loop or it could be that the pump was not converted to a two pipe set up. i.e. horseshoe washer or 2 pipe screw.

 

[WHPES]

A pressure test pump is required (one of these)

to test for air ingress (i.e. pressure up with oil and test for leaks). Would have thought the tech would have had one of these but if they didn't have something as basic as a fuel priming pump (about £5 from Halfords, below)

then maybe not.

Common cause of leaks is an old wheel head fusible fire valve

letting air back into the line. Have you got one of those on?

 

[robertf]

A pressure test pump is required (one of these)

to test for air ingress (i.e. pressure up with oil and test for leaks). Would have thought the tech would have had one of these but if they didn't have something as basic as a fuel priming pump (about £5 from Halfords, below)

then maybe not.

Common cause of leaks is an old wheel head fusible fire valve

letting air back into the line. Have you got one of those on?

Yes I do have one of these fitted but engineer claimed to have tested it but will remove and see what happens.. Thanks.... bob

 

[robertf]

Hi all

Just an update and a little advice please.
I am still getting a small amount of air into the boiler oil line.
I have actually disconnected line from tank and put it straight into a bucket of oil. there are no connections between the pipe except where it enters the non return valve and into the clear plastic tube to the pump on the walstar and am still getting pinhole size bubbles about a foot apart and forming an airlock which locks out the boiler.

1. what am I doing wrong
2. how long would it take for the air to flush through the pipe which was totally empty, slightly bent in places and runs about 15metres along the ground then 3 to 3.5 metres vertically.
3. Is this amount of air in pipe run normal.

regards bob

 

[lame plumber]

check filter seals coming off tank again, pressure test the oil line empty, as well to spot a leak ,with leak detector fluid, you dont want oil in your primroses. did you bin the fusible hd valve and install a proper fire valve?

 

[WHPES]

You still have a leak somewhere.

Do your complression fittings contain pipe sleeves?

 

[robertf]

Hi there

Thanks for your help

Yes I did get rid of the fusible fire valve and at this moment the only compression fittings connected to the oil suplly line is a non return valve ande the plastic tube leading to the boiler pump. I have a new fire valve as suggested ready to be fitted I just want to try and eliminate the air getting into the system

No I did not fit any pipe sleeves ti the fittings as the pipe is copper so thought you would not need them.

The supply at this moment is sucking oil directly from a bucket that I keep filling, but I still get very small air bubbles flowing through the supply, whilst the system is running it is fine but when it turns of over night or during the on the timer air builds up and causes lockout.

Getting desperate bob

 

[WHPES]

Yes, soft copper must be fitted with pipe sleeves or you get distortion, which is probably the source of your leak.

 

[Oilman1]

A very common problem not fitting pipe inserts on compression fittings!!! Should of been picked up on the pressure line test though.......