Oil Line Problems.... Please Help !!!

[DannyPerren]

Hello people

thanks for taking the time to read....
I have a Worcester Bosch Heatslave II oil external 25/32kW im having problems with the new oil supply..
the tank is fitted approx 1.5m lower than the burner so i have a tigerloop to help with the lift... the pipe run is approx 30m and installed in 10mm pipe... it comes off the bottom of the tank to an isolator then into a filter out of the filter and then runs thru a smooth duct under the drive and rear garden then comes up the wall approx 1.5m...round the wall into a fire valve/sensor then up approx 0.5m to the tigerloop original that is fitted on the side of the boiler (external) then i have the flow running in 10mm soft copper pipe and the return pipe is in a 10mm flexi hose (oil hose).
i have the bypass screw fitted in the burner.

When i prime the oil thru as described in the manual... by placing the flow hose in a bucket of oil the boiler runs perfectly but as soon as i re-connect the hose to the tigrloop the boiler runs for approx 2mins and i get a burner lockout fault code appear on the screenof the boiler that is 9f (855)

I have pressure tested the supply pipe and i had no loss of pressure so i believe the pipe is in an acceptable condition

PLEASE HELP ME ITS DRIVING ME CRAZY !!!!

 

[Dotty]

Get the oil line re run in 8mm. Without looking at a chart you may even need to go down to 6mm.

Hard to believe as it is the volume of oil you're trying to lift is too much for the burner oil pump, even with a de-aerator. They're good but they can't perform miracles.

 

[SimonG]

You oftec?

 

[lame plumber]

easily resolved do as advised. Oh the tiger loop doesnt provide lift, just removes all the air in the oil caused by the long pipe run and having to suck it vertically, also you should only use flexi pipes in the boiler casing, it should be in copper in/out of the tiger loop

 

[DannyPerren]

Thanks for all the replies...
Croppie i was thinking the same thing in reducing the pipe size but was not sure weather or not that would do anything... i have now looked at the chart and by the looks of things i do need to reduce it to 8mm..
i was thinking i may of had airlock in the supply line as if i take off the elbow before the lift no oil comes out of the pipe? do you think its worth trying to suck the oil from the tank to the tigerloop before replacing the line?

Lame plumber... it is advised by Oftec that the supply to the isolation point on the flow in the boiler is done in soft copper then from the isolation tap to the burner in a flxihose which is what i have done !

 

[Best]

I suspect you do have an airlock in the 10mm pipe. 30 metres is an awfully long distance and also any very slight rises in the pipe will cause air to remain. If you get at the Tigerloop end of pipe & have some means of drawing the oil up the pipe (if you are an oil guy then maybe you have a proper hand pump?). Then once oil pipe is completely full of oil immediately get the valve at tank off & reconnect to tigerloop. Good chance this will then work temporary, but it may stop someday. You should fit the correct pipe.

 

[DannyPerren]

Hi Best... Thanks for your response...

i have only just got in to the oil side of plumbing and not got much experience although im pretty quick at learning ! after doing some calculations i believe that a fuel flow rate should be 2.5kg/h and looking at the chart with a head of approx 1.5m and a maximum pipe run of 70m i should use a 8mm pipe external dia with 6mm internal dia ?

please have a look on page 10/11 on this manual and let me know your thoughts?

https://www.google.co.uk/webhp?sour... heatslave external 25/32 installation manual

 

[Pipes Plumbing]

As everyone has said above, your supply line wants to be <=8mm over that distance and lift but one thing is bugging me...
You say you opened the elbow before the lift and you had no oil? I take it this is still below the level of the oil in the tank? In which case there is problem 1, you should have oil there supplied by gravity - Either there is an issue / blockage with the line, an airlock or a problem with the isolator / filter.
First thing I'd be wanting to do though is make sure I had oil after the isolator & filter and that the line was clear of blockages or kinks / crushes where it has been backfilled.
Have you tried putting a suction pump on the supply pipe at the boiler and manually pulling the oil through to the tigerloop? As Best says above, that may well get you up and running although it still wont be ideal and may decide that it doesn't want to play the game one day.

Are you OFTEC registered (or one of the other CPS that cover oil), as a new line will be notifiable work that should be signed off either by LABC or through a CPS?

Good luck getting it going

 

[DannyPerren]

Thanks again...

yes i have opened the elbow which is below the oil tank and no oil comes out so when i pressured the oil line to check it was air tight i opened that elbow and the pressure pushed the oil out of the fitting so im sure that there is no blockage...
i have checked there is oil both sides of the filter and there are no issues there this leads me to think there is an air lock in the line? i haven't tried a suction pump to draw the oil thru yet as they are quite expensive and wanted to see what others thought of the pipe size 1st ?
i would assume that using a deareator and priming the oil thru using the burner/pump would do the same job as a suction pump anyway?

The company i work for are OFTEC registered but they are not particularly helpful in giving me advice as they want me to learn the hard way !

i have 30m of 8mm copper with 6mm internal dia so ill try that im thinking !

 

[lame plumber]

Thanks for all the replies...
Croppie i was thinking the same thing in reducing the pipe size but was not sure weather or not that would do anything... i have now looked at the chart and by the looks of things i do need to reduce it to 8mm..
i was thinking i may of had airlock in the supply line as if i take off the elbow before the lift no oil comes out of the pipe? do you think its worth trying to suck the oil from the tank to the tigerloop before replacing the line?

Lame plumber... it is advised by Oftec that the supply to the isolation point on the flow in the boiler is done in soft copper then from the isolation tap to the burner in a flxihose which is what i have done !

it is also an oftec requirement for all flexihoses to remain with in the boiler casing, so your isolation tap needs to be in the casing smart bum

 

[DannyPerren]

Lame Plumber... the isolation tap comes fitted in the boiler casing ?? i dont understand where your going with this... im not a smart bum at all i was merely stating what is says in OFTEC guidelines ?
sorry to offend you !

 

[Bunker]

Hi Danny
You must excuse Lame Plumber, he is a great engineer but a but frisky ;-)
The confusion with that point is your post

then i have the flow running in 10mm soft copper pipe and the return pipe is in a 10mm flexi hose (oil hose).

I am sure that is just a mistake in writing but it does read that the flow is a solid pipe to the burner, which of course would be daft. So you're best just clarifying that the solid pipes terminate inside the casing onto isolators and you have flexis from there to the burner.
Just one point....you have connected them the right way round?

Anyway, the problem is hugely obvious and picked up earlier:

i was thinking i may of had airlock in the supply line as if i take off the elbow before the lift no oil comes out of the pipe

I cant believe how far this thread has got beyond this point. If you havnt got oil coming out of the pipe prior to the 'lift' (which I assume you mean the vertical section) - then of course the boiler wont run!! My good man, you have a blockage somewhere between the tank and that point and its quite a blockage if that amount of head wont get anything through.

Personally I think the size of the pipe should work (WRONG OF COURSE but should work) but you already told us the problem.

 

[DannyPerren]

Bunker... Your spot on my friend ! There was an air lock in the pipe ! I bought a suction pump and drew the oil to the tigerloop re connected it and runs fine now ! Pipe was 10mm plastic with 6mm internal diameter so pipe size was fine ! I also had a faulty fire valve stopping the oil coming thru !
Hate these forums people always think they are above everyone else some times you've just got to help each other out ! We are all human after all !! Cheers mate

 

[SimonG]

You hate 'these' forums?

The one that just helped you?

Maybe LP was right.

 

[lame plumber]

dear old best told him what to do 2 days ago and SG gets all the praise, just hate these forums

 

[Best]

DannyPerren, I think everyone went easy on you, because they could have grilled you on why you weren't able to sort the basics.

dear old best told him what to do 2 days ago and SG gets all the praise, just hate these forums

Hey! Less of the "dear old Best"! I just hate these forums! :grin:

 

[lame plumber]

Baby Best ok then?

 

[Best]

Baby Best ok then?

No, - that's worryingly much worse! :smile:
Think everyone is waiting with their sleeves rolled up on DannyPerren coming back on! :smile:

 

[lame plumber]

well baby best it is, and dont be bending over in front of HRH the prince Andrew/Rolf

 

[wetdrip]

Wish every thread was like this: entertaining, abusive, caustic, intriguing and informative.
Now where's Miss Marple.

 

[MarkOil]

No, - that's worryingly much worse! :smile:
Think everyone is waiting with their sleeves rolled up on DannyPerren coming back on! :smile:

He is still having problems in the following thread now.
http://www.ukplumbersforums.co.uk/oil-solid-fuel-forum/75337-pipe-sizing-continued-problem.html

 

[Bunker]

He is still having problems in the following thread now.
http://www.ukplumbersforums.co.uk/oil-solid-fuel-forum/75337-pipe-sizing-continued-problem.html

Mark, your chronology is a little out mate

 

[MarkOil]

Oh yeah, I think he has sorted it, I don't know what day of the week it is at the best of times lol.