oil or none mains gas? pros and cons of both?

[that bloke.]

we dont have mains gas so would need one of those big tanks in the garden, it is coming towards the time when i need to make a decision on what to install.
what do you guys think? pros and cons of oil and none mains gas.

the house has no heating at all so it will all be a brand new install.

 

[Plouasne]

we dont have mains gas so would need one of those big tanks in the garden, it is coming towards the time when i need to make a decision on what to install.
what do you guys think? pros and cons of oil and none mains gas.

the house has no heating at all so it will all be a brand new install.

I would go for a wood pellet boiler, just about as controllable as oil or gas, can even be a condensing boiler, in the long term both oil and gas will rise more and more, whilst wood pellets are a waste product

 

[Flanners]

I agree with the post above. LPG is nasty stuff and main gas would cost you a fortune in installation and in using.

Save the planet mate!!!

 

[radswilldo]

You have more option than that, ground source/Air source heat pump etc. Visit energy saving trust for information on heating provision and there average pay back times. I would still find out how much it would cost to have gas run (if possible), its the most cost effective (look at payback times). Also within a decade hydrogrn fuel cells will be brought to market, these will be supplied with hydrogen from the gas main via a diffuser, the figures being bounded about are 50-70% reduction in gas heating consumption.

 

[that bloke.]

i wish i could save the planet mate. so , whats the craic with pellet boilers? are they easy to install? i dont really have any room for a cylinder though (i take it i woulod need one?) unless it was quite a small one.
also , would my insurance still love me if i had a burning furnace in a thatched cottage?

You have more option than that, ground source/Air source heat pump etc. Visit energy saving trust for information on heating provision and there average pay back times. I would still find out how much it would cost to have gas run (if possible), its the most cost effective (look at payback times). Also within a decade hydrogrn fuel cells will be brought to market, these will be supplied with hydrogen from the gas main via a diffuser, the figures being bounded about are 50-70% reduction in gas heating consumption.

i have looked into heat pumps and solar but i simply cannot afford it at the moment , we have this cottage to renovate and out budget is tiny , we also have a kid on the way so it needs to be at least liveable pretty soon.

the village has no gas main so mains gas is out of the question , for now anyway. they say it might arrive out there in the sticks one day.

when i get the renovating done then i can knuckle down and look into greener options , when i have more time and more spare cash.

 

[stevetheplumber]

i wish i could save the planet mate. so , whats the craic with pellet boilers? are they easy to install? i dont really have any room for a cylinder though (i take it i woulod need one?) unless it was quite a small one.
also , would my insurance still love me if i had a burning furnace in a thatched cottage?



i have looked into heat pumps and solar but i simply cannot afford it at the moment , we have this cottage to renovate and out budget is tiny , we also have a kid on the way so it needs to be at least liveable pretty soon.

the village has no gas main so mains gas is out of the question , for now anyway. they say it might arrive out there in the sticks one day.

when i get the renovating done then i can knuckle down and look into greener options , when i have more time and more spare cash.

I think calor is slightly dearer to run than oil but less exspensive to have installed must admit im not up to date on prices thats some thing to look into but greater choice of boilers using calor and generally smaller than oil burners you can probably get a calor rep to come round and advise

 

[Jimbob]

If choice is between LPG and Oil, Id say LPG everytime. Installation cost is less, and its a more trouble free. Oil can be problematic.

Or alterntively, wood chip boilers or air source/ground source heat pumps seems to be all the rage. Viessman are the guys to speak to with the woodchip, or worcester bosch for heat pumps. Although there are many other manuacturers

 

[unguided1]

the problem with oil LPG and wood pellets is the cost of the fuel to run the boilers where as the initial cost of an ashp seems high, when you consider the savings on the cost of fuel over ten years which will only go up, it seems to me that an ashp is the only way to go. and I wouldnt bother with ground source as the installation costs are way to high.

 

[Plouasne]

All fuel costs will increase, and that includes electricity, heat pumps are in my opinion not all they are cracked up to be, because they have an immersion heater to top up the heat of the water when the air temperature is very low and cannot supply sufficient heat from the air alone

 

[expat]

we dont have mains gas so would need one of those big tanks in the garden, it is coming towards the time when i need to make a decision on what to install.
what do you guys think? pros and cons of oil and none mains gas.

the house has no heating at all so it will all be a brand new install.

You could use two 47kg Propane bottles with auto changeover valve it would use one bottle every 4-5 days running for about 8 hrs a day.If you had a nice wood burner with back boiler this would work fine with an lpg combie and you would then get alot more days out of the bottles

 

[Plouasne]

A few link on wood pellets, boilers etc, sorry but you will have to do the "donkey work" and click through to find out more about wood pellets and boilers; just remember that straw and stainless steel flues don't mix, if thinking about straw boilers

Wood pellets

The Log Pile Website - Wood Pellets - Cost

[DLMURL="http://www.usewoodfuel.co.uk/Cost%20of%20wood-fuelled%20heating.stm"]Cost of wood-fuelled heating[/DLMURL]

Wood pellet delivery and costs


Wood pellet boilers

Wood pellet boiler - wood stove | solar panels | gas boiler | wood pellet boiler | wood pellet boilers | wood burning boiler | pellet boiler | pellet boilers

Wood Pellet Boilers

The Log Pile Website - Wood Pellets - Boilers

[DLMURL="http://www.kedco.com/e/energy/wood-pellet-boilers/"]Wood Pellet Boilers - Energy Efficient Wood Pellet Boiler - Pellet Burner Supplier Cork Central Heating- Save Now! - Ireland and UK Renewable Energy Experts in Bio-Science - Gasification, Anaerobic Digestion, Solar Panels & Wood Pellet Boilers[/DLMURL]


Other details on wood pellets and boilers etc

[DLMURL="http://www.ecobusinesslinks.com/wood-pellet-burning-wood-pellet-boilers.htm"]Find Wood Pellet Boilers - Pellet Central Heating[/DLMURL]

[DLMURL="http://www.usewoodfuel.co.uk/Pellet&Chipboilers.stm"]Wood Energy Scotland, equipment, pellet & chip boilers[/DLMURL]

Wood Pellet Boiler

Biomass Wood Pellet Boilers | Heat Sources | Underfloor Heating

Biomass - Biofuels & Bioenergy information - Energy Saving Trust

[DLMURL="http://www.buildingdesign-news.co.uk/2009/3-Almura-Group-Wood-Pellet-Boilers-Sustainable-energy-News-200109.asp"]Almura Group Wood Pellet Boilers Sustainable energy News 200109[/DLMURL]

Wood pellet biomass boilers for domestic use | Design details | Architects Journal

 

[Dave]

Nice post colin....

 

[unguided1]

All fuel costs will increase, and that includes electricity, heat pumps are in my opinion not all they are cracked up to be, because they have an immersion heater to top up the heat of the water when the air temperature is very low and cannot supply sufficient heat from the air alone

I think you may be mistaken, not all heat pumps have immersions in. I have installed a number of heat pumps this year as specified by customers, and none of them had back up heaters.
regards
mike

 

[samwilko]

Just to give you an idea, I live in the middle of nowhere, 2 bedroom bungalow.
I use 47kg bottles, 4 on a 4 bottle changeover valve.
I have installed a 30Si Worcester combi.
During the winter we use 2 bottles every 4-5 weeks at a current cost of £85 delivered and connected.
Heating on twice a day house tends to be hotter than I would choose!
During the summer we have used 4 bottles in about 8 months ish for hot water only.

 

[expat]

Just to give you an idea, I live in the middle of nowhere, 2 bedroom bungalow.
I use 47kg bottles, 4 on a 4 bottle changeover valve.
I have installed a 30Si Worcester combi.
During the winter we use 2 bottles every 4-5 weeks at a current cost of £85 delivered and connected.
Heating on twice a day house tends to be hotter than I would choose!
During the summer we have used 4 bottles in about 8 months ish for hot water only.

Good luck to you for using that small amount but i don't know how you are doing it.For me to keep my two bed bungalow that is well insulated uses about 10-15kg a day i would hate to misslead the original poster into thinking he could heat his house for about 400 quid a year because thats just not possible with LPG.

 

[samwilko]

2 bottles a week!!?? That seems a lot mate.
Apologies if you think Im misleading anyone but thats what we have spent over the last year. Two bottles per pay month roughly during the winter.
Only six rads, 30 mins in the morning then 4 hours in the evening (room stat controlled to 20 degrees). 12 month old worcester 30Si condensing combi.
Between £500-£600 a year.

Just double checked through my receipts.
4 bottles to start it 18 nov08
4 bottles 20 Jan 09 (allowed all 4 to run out by accident)
2 bottles 3 mar 09
2 bottles 15 apr 09
2 bottles 23 jul 09
2 bottles just due now.
A total of £595 for 18 Nov to now (2 empty bottles 2 full bottles left.)

No misleading intended just factually what I have spent.

 

[unguided1]

well if this comes off, then ASHPs will definatley be the way to go Renewable Heat Incentive - Department of Energy and Climate Change
Regards
Mike

 

[that bloke.]

i just had to say yes to some rules or something before replying?

anyhow , thanks for the reply's guys , your input is very much appreciated.

ive been thinking about this a lot and reading up but i need to go down the cheap and simple route for now , my house needs a full refurb including a re-thatch , lifting the concrete floors and replacing ,re-render from cement to lime , re-roof on the lean to kitchen , new bath room etc etc and i have to do all this on zero budget so you can see why i cannot go down the greener yet more expensive route , i really would love to and i feel a bit gutted that i cant but when the house is done then it will be a high priority for me to get sorted. i wouldnt say i am completely tuned into green technology or cleaner lifestyles but i do run my vehicle on used veg oil , i recycle everything i can , i even go as far as to not fill the kettle and bring my own bags to tescos etc etc , i have a long way to go but i am going in the right direction , i hope.

anyhow , we are looking into gas for our heating. one reason unfortunately is cost and the other is apparently its cleaner than burning oil?
anyways , calor gas has quoted us £250 quid for a tank , installed and all pipework with a £15 per quarter tank rental. they say our average bill should be £837 per year but we are a small family , well its just me, the missus and a soon to arrive baby so hopefully it will be around that or even less. they have told us we need to put down a concrete slab for the tank but i don't like concrete so i will use a lime based concrete instead providing they give me the ok to do so.
ive got a calor gas surveyor popping round to give me the low down on whats what so when i know more i will be able to make a more informed decision on what to do.
apart from a meter or so of straw on the roof the house has no insulation what so ever so this is another thing i need to look into to try and bring my carbon foot print down to a minimum however this type of house is very difficult to bring up to modern standards without losing any of its original fabric but i am sure there will be ways around it.
thanks again guys.

 

[metalmick]

Interesting situation your in, Im happy for you as Ive been there many times. cant comment on the lpg tank as Ive no experience,
We are in the middle of yet another bar type conversion and have again gone down the second hand Rayburn route,

Bought a royal (solid fuel) for £260, with a boiler fitted, pressure check showed it to be ok, inh itself it heats the area it sits in and allways has a couple of iron kettles sat on it, (not on the hot plates just the top castwork) the boiler runs 3 rads and a hot cyclinder,

Last winter we had this running from oct-april , cost wise we used smokeless and it ran 1 bag every 6 days (£13.50 a sack last winter )

Could have burnt wood etc so very green, also great for cooking and oven as well so worth considering,

If s/hand I would go for rayburn as opposed to aga,

Mike

 

[paul H]

Daikin Altherma produce air source heat pumps they appear to work well the immersion heater is only incorparated to clean the dhw cylinder from legionare and for quick recovery time, the heating will work better at low temperature say underfloor method or really big radiators 50% over size the dhw will heat upto 50 c which is plenty and a recovery time of about 30mins on a cylinder. the monoblock installation would probably be best suited. grants are avail to cut the price down, they state from every 1kw into the system produces 4kw out
look into it
regards
ph

 

[that bloke.]

cheers guys , had the man from calor come and visit.
for 250 quid we get a tank , £100 quids worth of free gas , free tank installation as well as the pipe work running to the boiler and a free combi.

all we have to do is pay the 250 , pay for the boiler install , dig a trench for the gas pipe and put down a slab to site the tank on.

i will be finding out how much the combi install will cost on monday.

any ideas on an average price to install a combi if all the pipe work is there all ready to be connected? its in suffolk so no inner london prices.

anyhow , that seems like a really good deal to me , its a 2 year contract but there is no minimum gas purchase requirement so if we dont like it we can still switch to something else and sit out the rest of the contract (quietly).
but even so , the money we are saving is still quite significant even if calor gas is a bit more expencive.

 

[metalmick]

What price have they quoted for the gas?
Mike

 

[Renewable M]

what size is the house? any idea on heat requirement?

Then I'll tell you what your ASHP will cost. No oil or gas tanks, no fuel deliveries, no emissions etc etc etc